J. Edwards brings up Scripture in Rev.20:10 and Rev. 14:10-11, which if he really read and understood the annihilationist argument, he would present their view on those verses and argue against, but he doesn’t. They use those verses as proof of their view in respect to Sodom and Gomorrah.
I wasn’t aware that it was my responsibility to make your arguments??? Aren’t you capable??? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scratch1.gif" alt="" />
Let’s look at Rev 20:10:
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Read their books if you desire exhaustive arguments, however let us see what the heretics account of this verse above. Some Annihilationists insist that being “tormented day and night forever and ever” signifies annihilation (Atkinson,
Life and Immortality, page 99-100; Fudge,
The Fire That Consumes, page 304, and Guillebaud,
The Righteous Judge, page 25-26). Fudge states that “in the case of the beast and false prophet…the lake of fire stands for utter, absolute, irreversible, annihilation” (page 304). They assert that Rev 20:10 has nothing to do with the fate of lost human beings. However, good biblical exegesis demands they are
incorrect: (1) Jesus taught that unsaved people suffer the Devil’s fate—Matt 25:41; (2) the verses following this verse depict resurrected human beings thrown into the lake of fire (Rev 20:15). Surprisingly Guillebaud, later (
The Righteous Judge, page 44) refutes himself saying that Rev 20:10, “certainly appears” to “teach the everlasting torment of the trinity of evil.” Rev 20:10 clearly reveals that people are judged and the wicked are cast into the lake of fire (compare, Rev 20:14). The lake of fire signifies not extinction in opposition to existence, but torturous existence in the society of evil in opposition to the life in the society of God (paraphrase of Beasley-Murray).
Let’s look at Rev 14:10-11:
he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.
Annihilationists (Fudge,
The Fire That Consumes, page 300) appeal to the destruction of Babylon in Rev 18:8, 18; 19:3 as proof that annihilation is taught in Rev 14:11. However, their argument fails because Babylon cannot survive the creation of the New Heavens and the New Earth (Rev 21:17), whereas the damned do survive, as Rev 21:8 and 22:15 bear witness.
In addition, Stott (Edwards and Stott,
Evangelical Essentials, page 316) claims verse 11 for his side: Annihilationism. He states;
The fire itself is termed “eternal” and “unquenchable,” but it would be very odd if what is thrown into it proves indestructible. Our expectation would be the opposite: it would be consumed for ever, not tormented forever. Hence it is the smoke (evidence that the fire has done its work) which “rises for ever and ever.”
However, Stott stumbles over the simplicity of the nature of fire; that is once the source material has disappeared, there is no more smoke! For smoke to rise forever and ever the substance must burn forever and ever. If Stott and geomic1 would have read the rest of the verse this would have been very clear to them; “
and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.” When Annihilationists (
The Fire That Consumes, page 300; Atkinson,
Life and Immortality, page 109; Guillebaud,
The Righteous Judge, page 24 ) assert that John means to say that the wicked have relief so long as their suffering lasts, they evade the plain meaning of the text by reading something into the text that is not there. The imagery in Rev 14 is very clear--that it conveys the eternal conscious torment of the eternally ungodly.
Now as far as Sodom and Gomorrah (S&G). Fudge relates as the citizens of S&G were completely destroyed so shall the citizens of Hell. Fudge’s states, “There is no biblical hint that Sodom and Gomorrah’s inhabitants presently endure conscious torment; several passages, in fact, make a point of their abiding extinction” (
The Fire That Consumes, pages 286-287). However, this is much to sweet as it proves more than annihilationists desire to prove—that the inhabitants of those cities were destroyed at death, NEVER to exist again. However, annihilationism holds that the wicked dead will be resurrected to face a judgment prior to their extinction! Once again this theology is found wanting. Jude teaches that God’s judgment of S&G furnishes an earthly temporal example of the final fate of the wicked. Jude means that the
still burning site of the cities is a warning picture of the eternal fires of Hell! According to Philo, “even to this day the visible tokens of the indescribable disaster are pointed out in Syria –ruins, cinders, brimstone, smoke and murky flames which continue to rise from the ground as from a fire still smoldering beneath” (JND Kelly,
A Commentary on the Epistle of Peter and Jude). As the people of S&G have a temporal existence on earth and suffered temporarily, the eternal body has a permanent existence that suffers eternally.
Next time, please plan on making your own arguments. One wonders if you have read enough of their arguments to state them??? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bash.gif" alt="" />
Please read
Hell on Trial.
