Let me preface myself by saying that I only saw the video David provided a link to. Let me also say that I have no stance at this time about the Emerent Movement, I'm still assessing and gathering information to make my all purpose judgement to embrace or condemn this segement of Christianity because that is, of coarse, what we are called a Christians to do, we're to make judgements that those who preach Christ crucified but have a different tradition, doctrine, or methodology are either acceptable (a.k.a. they are really our own general tradition) or they're not. I personally try to rejoice at the preaching of Christ even if it's for the wrong reason because I respect the tradition set out by the Apostle Paul.
Anyway, David didn't really ask a question beyond "Did we see it?" To which I have to say I didn't but appreciate seeing this video clip. Thanx David.
Unfortunately I feel like contributing something to the discussion which I'm told is usually bad for me to do, but anyway, here go's.
Not all emergents are lost and not all non-emergent Christians are saved!
Yeah, really. And I didn't think the video was all that creepy either (except for the offering, but just about every church I've ever been to has one of those except for this methodist church who I guess believes in letting their giving be in secret so that they can be rewarded in the open). Really and truly it seemed as though they weren't all that different from a lot of "Low Church" people today in many established mainstream/evangelical/protestant/conservative/ whatever denominations. I should ammend that, the last time I saw candles used in a baptist or charismatic church (which I would never go to or enter, wink wink) was either a wedding or a Christmas Eve (afternoon) service.
Seems kinda scary to me that they use things like tires and drinks and loud music to praise God because of coarse we see in Acts and in the writings of Paul how only consecrated and "clean" or "holy" items can be used to praise God. Even scarier is that they remind me of this monk I once heard about, Brother Lawerence (some book called the Practice of the Presence of God) who's said to have washed dishes and praised God at the same time (while he was working!). It's scary that "these people" are reaching out to an age group which has typically not gone to church due in part to a lack of activities and that they're getting people into their churches. It's scary that they don't hold to a specific soteriology or ecclessiology or eschatology or methodology or something like that (in fact, some of them released this statement
http://www.anewkindofchristian.com/archives/000429.html in which they clearly admit to making mistakes in their churches). Obviously anyone who doesn't get bent out of shape with their critics and who seeks peace with other Christians and acknowledges their sin and mistakes, who encourage people to follow their own leaders leadership and their own conscience, who say "Brothers, we are not professionals", who deny being epistemological relativist and instead claim to seek truth, who encourage direct conversation about the issues at hand, who acknowledge a division of opinions in one movement and accept only personal accountability instead of accepting accountability one individual for the entire movement; obviously such people are not to be trusted or even considered. Obviously, at the first sign of questionable doctrine or practice we can make this an open and shut case that these people aren't reformed and therefore aren't saved. Oh, but wait, there's that one Mars Hill Church or Mars Hill Bible Church or something like that which says they do believe in the 5 points, and monergism.com even points that out. But since God didn't spare sodom for 1 right on guy, we shouldn't spare a movement for one right on church and a few who're still trying to figure it out.
You know what's even scarier, these guys see themselves as part of the church universal, they don't necessarilly see themselves as a church alternative because they think that simply believing in Christ makes them a part of the church which the WCF (which as a Baptist I don't consider inerrant) says "which is invisible, consists of the whole number of the elect, that have been, are, or shall be gathered into one, under Christ the Head thereof;". Wow, pretty scary. Really and truly, I think the WCF Chapter 25 has stuff to say about Emergent, perhaps I'll post on it sometime, or maybe someone will go back, dust off a copy, read it, and post before I get around to it.
And of coarse, we also have the issue of the sacred sacrimentology and the possibility that some creature other than a human had some bread or juice used in the ordinance. We all, knowing exactly the meaning and the power and the rules for the Sacriment, Euchrist, Lord's Supper, Communion, yeah, we all know so why don't they know that you're only to proclaim the gospel to humans (not all of Creation). Here's hoping that the crackers or the cookies or whatever they use didn't go to the dogs but the extra's were left to either rot in storage or to fill up a garbage can, cause that would definitely be more honoring to God, don't you think?
It is interesting that they seem to have reason to think that they've met the needs of people, I mean, come on, the United States Government in accordance with Scripture I'm sure, is taking care of widows and orphans and other people who have needs, why would a church have to meet people's needs? There's no need for needs in church!
All that aside, I've never heard of any of the people in this video clip except McLaren (a friend let me read some of his writings because I suggested that it was better to disprove a belief from within than from without, by knowing it instead of just randomly striking against it) and this clip is obtained through ABC and I think we all know that that station has nothing to do with Admitting, Believing, or Confessing. I think Mr. McLaren has seen hostility, a hostility and hatred which he may expect due not because he know's he's preaching against the Bible but because he's preaching the Bible (in his mind at least) and in doing so he expects what we so rarely get these days, attacks. He's probably read online in a message board not unlike this one, or on some blog or in a book or heard from some friend that he's considered a threat to the church. Personally I would find that discouraging, but he seems convinced that he's preaching truth and so he's expecting based on the teachings of Jesus which are supposed to be at the central focus of what he speaks, that persecution will come for Jesus Name sake. He may even be so "delusional" as to think that persecution from religious officials is a blessing.
Sipmly put, if Emergent is misguided, then there are several other groups who aren't exactly on coarse either because there are plenty of people out there trying to pitch the gospel as a product to fill up a felt need for a religious experience.
I was really impressed with Denny's two verse citations. Seems to me that in Isaiah 30:18, the next paragraph, that "therefore the Lord waits to be gracious to you(the ones who were blind and deaf); therefore he exalts himself to show mercy to you. For the Lord is a God of justice; blessed are all those who wait for him." and Romans 3 talks about there being "no distinction" in that all have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God".
I'm so glad to know that God will judge the ignorant as the intellectual and that even though there's no distinction of us apart from the law, that some christians are far enough along that they not only can work out their own salvation with fear and trembling but they can do it for entire groups of "Christians" in completely different cities and circumstances and traditions etc. It really gives me something to aspire to.
Well, I think I've said enough and then some, cause this really is a scary movement full of really different ideas from the Bible. I sincerely hope that we can deal with this before we get to heaven and God has to get involved.
-Bro. Luke
Please take all comments with 2 pinches of salt and a happy thought and respond in the morning, and if you read this in the morning, I mean, respond tomorrow morning after you've had time to fully lay out my errors. I thank you all for any and all criticism because I'm sure any sarcastic statement I made herein is going to be terribly hard to find. NONE OF THESE STATEMENTS WERE MEANT PERSONALLY (so if you take them as such, they're not, get over it).
