The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Predestination

Question: Aren’t you saying that we are bound by our nature... how we are born. We are all born in sin... totally depraved... except the elect. I know you will disagree. They weren’t really born in a state of total depravity... because they were born in a state of total grace.

Answer: ALL <------- are born under the burden of "Original Sin", i.e., 1) the guilt of Adam's transgression is imputed to them, and 2) inherit a corrupt (depraved) nature, thus ALL <------- are under the wrath of God and subject to condemnation. NO ONE is born "in a state of total grace". There is no such thing to be found in Scripture anywhere.


Question: Are you saying the elect are regenerated at birth? Thus they are saved?

Answer: <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/nope.gif" alt="" /> 1) Regeneration at birth is a rare exception and thus does not apply to 99.9999% of the human race. 2) No one is saved because they are regenerated. Regeneration makes one spiritual alive, a new predisposition/nature is created and thus they are able to comprehend the Gospel, their own need, their perilous state, the beauty and necessity of Christ and His work, the desire after righteousness, etc. One is ONLY saved after they are regenerated and are converted, i.e., repent of their sins and believe upon Christ.


What is nicknamed "Calvinism", for whatever reason historically that happened, can be essentially divorced from the man himself, for it is nothing more than biblical teaching put into an organized framework. The truths found in the Calvinistic system pre-date Calvin by a few thousand years. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/giggle.gif" alt="" /> A person we would consider to be a "Calvinist" existed long before Calvin was born. Calvinism doesn't have its foundation in John Calvin nor any man or group of men. It is again, simply that system of truth, aka: Christianity which is found in Scripture.

Lastly, re: "I have not understood that responding to Grace implies ‘saving oneself’". Well, you misunderstood something because that simply isn't true nor did anyone here say that. The issue is WHY and/or HOW does someone respond to Grace (not sure what that means). As I explained elsewhere, albeit briefly, as Jesus also explained to Nicodemus in John 3, "Unless you are born again (from above) you cannot even see the kingdom of God" never mind respond to its overtures. And that new birth is again, a sovereign, secret, and monergistic work of the Holy Spirit who regenerates Who He will, when He wills and where He wills. There is nothing man can do in any way, shape or form to precipitate regeneration. Perhaps that's why it is known as "Sovereign Free Grace", ya think? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scratchchin.gif" alt="" />