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Boanerges said:
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Then the article disagrees with you!!

When I say without means, no Gospel is needed for the Holy Spirit to regenerate a person. Here it is in a nutshell.

Spirit regeneration is immediate without employing sinful man preaching the word.

Gospel conversion is a truth also.

The quote from Paul was used to prove this. The Gospel brings light to life. One must be spiritually resurrected by the Holy Spirit alone, before light can shine on the new mind and heart.

AS far as a time lag, I am not even considering John the Batist or Jeremiah. The Holy Spirit preceedes the word and prepares the soil. It could be one minute or any determined time by God alone. And i am protecting an absurd notion that God wuld regenerate a person for years without giving him the word for conversion. But God does prepare the soil before the seed is planted. Exactly the opposite of of hardening, God softens. So when God would send a prophet to preach the word, he would regenerate those whom He deisred prior to the prophet speaking and harden those who he desired

Call it preceeding grace or any other label !!!!! I do nto consider responding in conviction, repentance, through faith any part of regeneration, but it is conversion.

Joe that smacks of prevenient Grace which appears to me just a hop skip and a jump to the idea that God "softens" everyone and that our conversion is by our own "free" will.

I'm afraid that other than the exceptions listed that I am going to agree with Pilgrim and the others that regeneration normally comes about the ordained means that God has decreed ie: the preaching of the Word.


There are distinctions within the scope of prevenient grace. There are some reformers who held to the belief that i see scripture espousing, that the Holy Spirit preceedes the word in order to prepare the elect person to receive it with joy and have root. I am in no way espousing a belief that grace is actie in all indiscriminately.

I will call it preparatory grace, Spirit ressurection, Spirit regeneration.

There never was a sinner half as big as Christ is as a Savior.