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AJC said:
In dialogues with non-reformed Christians a common problem I run into is that they can't get over election.

Out of exasperation I'm coming to the conclusion that I simply need to say: "Forget election, simply put Christ first and foremost and pray for the strength to do so!"
After reading your post and also your reply to SemperReformanda I have to conclude that these questions are the result of your continual exposing yourself to bad sources, whether it be friends, books or articles online. Let me ask you frankly, do you spend the majority of your time reading/listening to that which is opposed to the Reformed Faith? or do you spend your time studying the Scriptures and reading literature of the Reformers, Puritans and modern authors that hold to the historic doctrines of grace?

Now, allow me to suggest to you that although most people do have a problem with the biblical doctrine of Unconditional Election, that isn't their real problem. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> The real problem is with the doctrine of Total Depravity. Just think about it.... <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scratchchin.gif" alt="" /> If man is as corrupt as the Bible says he is and if man's nature is totally depraved so that he has no interest whatsoever in His Creator, never mind living a life of love and obedience before him, how else could any man be saved without God first electing him to salvation? Since man is dead in sin, nothing would ever get him to repent of his sins since he loves sin, never mind believing upon Christ and a bloody atonement in order to be reconciled to God. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes2.gif" alt="" /> As long as someone believes that man has some kind of desire and or ability to "get saved", you will also find an aversion and objection to anything called Unconditional Election.

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AJC said:
We may all agree that the Bible is filled with GOd's revealed truths or desire for man - God's decree or hidden truth is hinted to as well.

But are us Reformed being overly presumptuous in focusing on the hidden truths??? - when the Bible appears pretty straightfoward in the presentation of the revealed truths for man to obey and follow. Are we turning the Bible upside down to some extent and isolating the verses that focus on GOd's sovereignty and elective decree which does not seem to encompass a majority of the Word - in fact if it were not for Romans 9 we would have a much more difficult time making our cases.
Oh really? Perhaps you need to read more of your Bible? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/giggle.gif" alt="" />

See here: God's Indisputable Sovereignty

And if you haven't got a copy of A.W. Pink's The Sovereignty of God, then perhaps you should drop everything you are doing right now and go out, buy it and sit down and read it!! [Linked Image]

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AJC said:
Now with all this being said - I still believe in God's elective decree and that He has divinely chosen a Paul while leaving many other over to themselves. But is the Bible suppose to be presented the way we do in which the divine decree, election and predestination are at the forefront (i.e. Canons of Dordt) - Isn't that a confusing and insecurity provoking start point, especially when witnessing to those who are babes in the word or non-believers or even seasoned Christians of the non-Reformed variety.
What you are suggesting, whether you are aware of it or not, is that we die-hard Calvinists change the Gospel so that it is more "palatable" and/or "believable" to the unbelieving world. First, sorry, but that's already been done by the overwhelming majority of churches today. Secondly, this "other gospel" has been around since Bible days; see Gal 1ff. The TRUE Gospel has always been offensive to most people, even those who profess to be Christians. (cf. 2Cor 2:14-17) But in fact, the offensive of a sovereign God, a vicarious substitutionary atonement, a salvation by grace alone is in fact the "power of God unto salvation". (Rom 1:16; 10:16, 17) False gospels can only produce false "christians". And we know all too well how true that is today. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/drop.gif" alt="" />

I'd really like you to read this article by J.I. Packer: The Old Gospel and the New. It's gotta help and it surely cannot hurt. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />

In His grace,

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simul iustus et peccator

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