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Pilgrim said:
<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/nope.gif" alt="" /> The old nature is NOT "forced" to do that which it is incapable of doing. It can only act within the bounds of what it is.

Yes. The old nature is forced to be changed. Mans will has no play in the secret operation of the Spirit in ones effectual call. This is what Calvin said in the quotes I provided. So I dont now where I am against 'historic' understanding.

Jer. 31:18-19, "Turn thou me, and I shall be turned; Thou art the Lord my God. Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh"



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Jeremiah 13:23 (ASV) "Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil."

Matthew 7:17-18 (ASV) "Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but the corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit."
Thus, for a "tree" (man) to do that which is good, e.g., believing upon Christ, he must be made into a good "tree". You cannot force a dead tree to produce good fruit... it is simply impossible. God can make water flow from a rock. He can make a donkey speak, etc. But does not and CANNOT make a rational human being do that which is contrary to his nature. Again, this is the view held by historic Protestant Christianity, aka: Calvinism. Arminianism insists that an unregenerate man CAN make decisions which are contrary to his nature. And, I'm no Arminian. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/evilgrin.gif" alt="" />

In His grace, [/quote]

I agree with all of this Pilgrim

There never was a sinner half as big as Christ is as a Savior.