Robin
Lake Park, Georgia USA
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Joined: January 2002
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Joined: Dec 2001
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Needs to get a Life
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Needs to get a Life
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615 |
CMH states, I do not feel that the men that drove the nails into Christ's hands were acting against their will. No good Calvinist does. The Scripture is VERY clear: Acts 2:23 him, being delivered up by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye by the hand of lawless men did crucify and slay: Note that God predestined the event to happen, but that moral responsibility is also assigned to man for taking the action they did. God has predestined all that has and will happen and yet He does not violate man’s will in the process. The WCF puts it this way: I.God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass:[1] yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,[2] nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.[3]
1. Psa. 33:11: Eph. 1:11: Heb. 6:17 2. Psa. 5:4; James 1:13-14; I John 1:5; see Hab. 1:13 3. Acts 2:23; 4:27-28: Matt. 17:12; John 19:11; Prov. 16:33 CMH states, I believe whole heartedly that they just like any other murderer or rapist or child molester did exactly as they wanted to with no thought about the consequences.. Having put away a bunch of these bad guys, I can agree with you in part, however MANY do know and think about the consequences – both temporary and eternal. However, thinking about them and taking and being able to take the appropriate action are entirely different things. CMH states, However, do we not feel remorse for things? I know of non believers who after wronging another person, though at the time they wanted to do it, felt remorse.. Where would this feeling come from? There is a difference in the remorse of the world and the remorse of true repentance. Paul puts it nicely, 2 Cor. 7: 8-13 Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it—I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while— yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done. At every point you have proved yourselves to be innocent in this matter. So even though I wrote to you, it was not on account of the one who did the wrong or of the injured party, but rather that before God you could see for yourselves how devoted to us you are. By all this we are encouraged. From personal experience with murders, molesters, rapists, etc. I can assure you that most of their sorrow was from “I am sorry I got caught.” In addition, major problems with world’s repentance “even if it brings a permanent result” is (1) it does not atone for past sins, (2) there is no turning to Christ, etc. True repentance is a GIFT from God (2 Tim 2:24-26). It is on the flip side of faith, which is also a GIFT from God (Eph. 2:8-10). God only gives these gifts to whom He has elected. CMH states, If God has created an image of Himself, should we not be able to feel compassion and love? If we can feel love can we not feel God? I believe in a God of Love. There are numerous errors here. Adam and Eve were created in the image of God. However, they “corrupted” this image. You and I no longer have a perfect image of God. Thus, God’s love cannot be fully and completely communicated by us. In addition, before slavation the soul – the spirit – is dead (Eph 2:1). Dead men cannot love. Moreover, love is action (1 Cor. 13), that may cause certain fellings, but love itself is not a felling – God’s action which corrupted images and dead man cannot “do.” You do not understand Total Depravity. CMH states,
I understand that He is also a jealous God and a God of wrath and will exercise these feelings in time of need, but ultimately is not everything He does out of love? NO, you do not understand this. God ALSO “hates” (Rom 9:13; Ps. 11:5). God is “angry” with the wicked everyday (Ps. 7:11). God gets “mad” (righteous, controlled holy, etc.) when He saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. (Genesis 6:5-7). I could go on and on, but I hope you get the point. I might add that, unlike us, all these are characteristics of God are “without sin.” God is 100% love and 100% just. It would be unholy of God not to exhibit His justice at sin – thus He would not be God. If not for election all would have seen ONLY His justice. Election however allows His elect, and His elect alone, to be saved and to exhibit His character in a limited way. CMH quotes Lev. 26:3-38 and ends with,
Is God not telling the people that IF they do what is right he will take care of them, yet if they do wrong He will destroy them? If statements seem to me as though He is making it clear that we have a conscious ability to follow, or not. Even though my actions are not a "surprise" to God so to speak, I believe He allows me to make them. The law was given to lead us to grace. It was given to show us that we could not keep it (Rom. 5:20). The law has never been kept (Rom. 8:3) except by One man and that man is Jesus Christ (Rom. 5:12-21). He and He alone fulfilled the law and all righteousness. I should have been more detailed, but time does not allow. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/hello.gif" alt="" />
Reformed and Always Reforming,
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Entire Thread
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Gods Character??
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Clint
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Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:11 AM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Pilgrim
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Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:50 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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William
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Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:18 AM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Kurt Hutchison
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Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:09 AM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Clint
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Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:28 AM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Joe k
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Sat Jul 28, 2007 11:56 AM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Pilgrim
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Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:28 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Clint
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Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:25 AM
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Re: Gods Character??
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J_Edwards
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Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:30 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Clint
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Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:52 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Paul_S
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Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:04 AM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Robin
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Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:33 AM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Clint
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Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:25 AM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Machaira
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Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:42 PM
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John_C
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Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:24 PM
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Machaira
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Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:18 AM
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Johan
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Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:16 PM
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CovenantInBlood
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Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:40 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Kurt Hutchison
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Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:17 AM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Johan
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Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:23 AM
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Joe k
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Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:51 AM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:35 AM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Joe k
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Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:01 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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William
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Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:04 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Joe k
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Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:22 AM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Kurt Hutchison
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Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:26 AM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Joe k
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Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:31 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Pilgrim
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Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:23 PM
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Joe k
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Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:53 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Pilgrim
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Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:51 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Joe k
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Sat Aug 04, 2007 2:42 PM
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Pilgrim
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Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:52 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Joe k
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Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:36 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Joe k
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Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:01 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Pilgrim
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Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:22 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Joe k
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Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:16 AM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Paul_S
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Sun Aug 05, 2007 4:52 AM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Pilgrim
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Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:17 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Joe k
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Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:00 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Pilgrim
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Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:53 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Joe k
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Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:30 AM
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Re: Gods Character??
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:24 AM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Joe k
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Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:27 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Pilgrim
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Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:41 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Joe k
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Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:22 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Johan
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Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:30 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Joe k
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Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:12 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:00 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Joe k
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Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:16 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:54 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Joe k
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Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:08 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Pilgrim
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Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:36 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:40 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Joe k
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Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:11 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Pilgrim
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Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:31 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Joe k
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Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:19 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Pilgrim
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Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:52 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Joe k
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Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:38 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Pilgrim
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Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:06 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Joe k
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Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:28 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Pilgrim
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Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:06 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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J_Edwards
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Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:51 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Joe k
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Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:39 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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J_Edwards
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Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:11 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Joe k
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Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:50 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Pilgrim
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Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:08 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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J_Edwards
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Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:46 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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William
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Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:50 AM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Robin
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Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:16 AM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Joe k
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Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:18 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Pilgrim
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Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:16 PM
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Re: Gods Character?
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William
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Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:38 PM
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Re: Gods Character?
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Robin
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Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:35 AM
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Re: Gods Character?
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William
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Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:41 AM
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Re: Gods Character?
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Joe k
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Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:16 AM
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Re: Gods Character?
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Pilgrim
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Fri Aug 10, 2007 4:20 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Pilgrim
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Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:10 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Joe k
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Sun Aug 05, 2007 1:55 AM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Pilgrim
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Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:29 AM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Johan
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Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:53 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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William
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Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:32 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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Pilgrim
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Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:53 PM
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Re: Gods Character??
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William
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Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:41 AM
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Re: Gods Character??
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CovenantInBlood
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Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:20 AM
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My apologies.
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Clint
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Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:48 AM
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Re: My apologies.
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Robin
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Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:01 AM
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Re: My apologies.
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William
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Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:22 PM
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Re: My apologies.
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missionaryman
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Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:01 AM
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