Joe,

At the risk of putting words into William's mouth or misconstruing what he actually believes, I think the issue here re: Christ's suffering and the atonement can be quickly and easily resolved when it is understood that the atonement of Christ consists of two aspects: "active" and "passive". The latter is what most seem to dwell on while the former is rarely discussed and by some even denied as being necessary.

Active: This is the life which the Lord Christ lived while on earth. It was 100% perfect as He conformed to the holy law of God without fail. This "active" aspect was and is no less essential to the atonement than the "passive" as it procured the perfect righteousness which God demands of every man, woman and child. And it is this perfect righteousness which is imputed (aka: justification) when a sinner believes, i.e., they are "clothed" with Christ's righteousness. That the Lord Christ suffered while on earth cannot be denied. In fact, just the fact that the God of the universe became man and walked among sinful men caused Him much suffering. In addition to slander, disrespect, hatred, et al could be added temptation, both from the world and the Devil himself who tried desperately to get Him to break the law and/or fore-go the cross.

Passive: As I mentioned above, this is the aspect that most dwell on, i.e., His crucifixion and death. In this aspect of the atonement, the penalty for sin was paid in full thus rescuing the elect from having to stand in judgment themselves. Here too, the Lord Christ suffered in body, mind and soul in behalf of those for whom He came to redeem from the curse of the law.

In both aspects and equally so, the atonement was both vicarious and substitutionary. Or as John Murray so accurately stated it, "the atonement was antecedently absolutely necessary", i.e., there just wasn't any other way that Christ could have atoned for fallen sinners; provide both a perfect righteousness and satisfy the justice of God.

Hopefully, this will help? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In His grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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