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Re: Does a denial of the gospel's free offer = Hyp [Re: Peter] #38159
Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:52 AM
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Boanerges said:
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* Denies open communion table (Promotes Closed Communion Table)


Do you mind explaining what you mean by that?


Yes, I could see this needing clarification -

not that we can judge the heart of another but we may be able to tell what's inside by the fruits, or the walk of the individual in relation to who should particiapte in the Lord's Supper,

this is basically what I'm getting at:




Quote

Calvin writes that discretion in admission to the table should be exercised "through the jurisdiction of the church"; the sacrament "may not be profaned by being administered indiscriminately" (Inst. 4.12.5). Therefore, great responsibility rests upon the ordained officers who must be "of sound doctrine and of holy life, not notorious in any fault which might both deprive them of authority and disgrace the ministry [1 Tim. 3:2-3; Titus 1:7-8] (4.3.12)" of the word and sacrament. For the minister "to whom its distribution has been committed, if he knowingly and willingly admits an unworthy person whom he could rightfully turn away, is as guilty of sacrilege as if he had cast the Lord's body to dogs (4.12.5)." The Heidelberg Catechism observes that if those are admitted to the table whose confession and life reveal ungodliness, then "the covenant of God would be profaned and his wrath kindled against the whole congregation (Q.A. 82)." Since the consequences of unlawful participation in the sacrament are so dire, the Genevan church order concludes that "it is necessary that those who have the power to frame regulations make it a rule that they who come to this communion be approved members of Christ (50)."

Approved members of Christ are those whose confession and life show that they belong to him, that they "participate in his body and blood" in faith. Christ instituted the supper only for his believers, to confirm the faith of those who by grace have been saved through hearing his Word. Since the sacrament is the "word made visible", it reinforces the gospel. Therefore, unlike the sacrament of baptism, which may be administered to those who do not understand, God "does not similarly hold forth the Supper for all to partake of, but only for those who are capable of discerning the body and blood of the Lord, of examining their own conscience, of proclaiming the Lord's death, and of considering its power (Inst. 4.16.30)." Since faith is a prerequisite for admission to the table, he whose confession and conduct reveal that he is unbelieving "should for a time be deprived of the communion of the supper until he gives assurance of his repentance (Inst. 4.12.6)." Martin Bucer, the main author of the church order of Cologne, notes that the Lord Jesus "celebrated the supper only with the twelve and only after he had preached so much; He did it only once, for which reason we assume that the Lord's supper should only be celebrated by those who submit entirely to Christ, confirm to have a thorough knowledge of the evangelical doctrine, fully believe this, and do not publicly prove the reverse."(4) Since only approved members of Christ may approach the table of the Lord, the ordinances of Geneva (1541) state that on the Sunday preceding the celebration, announcement should be made that those who are strangers or new-comers "may be exhorted first to come and present themselves at the church, so that they be instructed and thus none approach to his own condemnation."(5) In short, "no one is to be received at the supper unless he first have made confession of his faith."(6)

"It is not the office of each individual to judge and discriminate, in order to admit or reject as seems good to him; for this prerogative belongs generally to the church, or better, to the pastor with the elder whom he ought to have for assistance in the government of the church."

from Calvin's Short Treatise on the Holy Supper




http://spindleworks.com/library/rfaber/calvin_supper.htm


The mercy of God is necessary not only when a person repents, but even to lead him to repent, Augustine

Re: Does a denial of the gospel's free offer = Hyp [Re: AC.] #38160
Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:28 PM
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AC. said:
Are any of these TRUE MARKS of HyperCalvinsim???

It seems to me that the term "hyperCalvinism" is a misnomer. The fact that all Calvinists believe in "Unconditional Election", regardless of whether or not they hold to the rest of the "4 points", makes them all "hyper".

Re: Does a denial of the gospel's free offer = Hyp [Re: lookn4ward2heavn] #38161
Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:45 PM
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lookn4ward2heavn said:
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AC. said:
Are any of these TRUE MARKS of HyperCalvinsim???

It seems to me that the term "hyperCalvinism" is a misnomer. The fact that all Calvinists believe in "Unconditional Election", regardless of whether or not they hold to the rest of the "4 points", makes them all "hyper".

Personally, I would only categorize somebody Hyper-Calvinistic if they believed the Good News should not be preached & shared becasue it is all determined. Determinism, if you will.


The mercy of God is necessary not only when a person repents, but even to lead him to repent, Augustine

Re: Does a denial of the gospel's free offer = Hyp [Re: AC.] #38162
Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:49 PM
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AC. said:Personally, I would only categorize somebody Hyper-Calvinistic if they believed the Good News should not be preached & shared because it is all determined. Determinism, if you will.


Are not all Calvinists are "deterministic" on the basis of "unconditional election"? Whether or not a Calvinist believes the Gospel should be preached or not is irrelevant since each is believed on the basis of a divine determinism, specifically, "unconditional election".

Re: Does a denial of the gospel's free offer = Hyp [Re: lookn4ward2heavn] #38163
Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:10 PM
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It is the duty of all Christians to witness and it is the duty of all men to come to faith and repentance.

Our deficiencies which have been inherited from Adam and are our own does not absolve us from our duties - since God's hidden will is not revealed the command is open to all and will be made effectual to some but it does not negate our duties and responsiblities (the idea that it does must be labeled HYPER-CALVINSIM)

Last edited by AC.; Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:31 PM.

The mercy of God is necessary not only when a person repents, but even to lead him to repent, Augustine

Re: Does a denial of the gospel's free offer = Hyp [Re: AC.] #38164
Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:26 PM
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1. I agree, all Christians are under obligation to be a witness for Christ. However, does a Christian witness on the basis of God's influences to witness (which can be refused) or on the basis of a divine predetermination to witness, which he will not refuse because he cannot, seeing a submissive disposition to obedience was also predetermined?

2. Why is the call for men to repent "effectual to some" and not to all who hear it?

3. By the way, where does the Bible affirm this concept of God having a "hidden" will with reference to the salvation of men? What is that "hidden will". If hidden, how do you know there is such a will in God the first place?

Please understand, these questions are not given to affirm or deny Calvinism per se. I think the answers to these questions may show that all who believe in Calvinism are "hyper" (if it be insisted that only some are to be designated as such) because they all agree to the concept of "unconditional election", regardless of whatever other doctrinal disagreements they may have.

Re: Does a denial of the gospel's free offer = Hyp [Re: lookn4ward2heavn] #38165
Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:47 PM
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lookn4ward2heavn said:

Please understand, these questions are not given to affirm or deny Calvinism per se. I think the answers to these questions may show that all who believe in Calvinism are "hyper" (if it be insisted that only some are to be designated as such) because they all agree to the concept of "unconditional election", regardless of whatever other doctrinal disagreements they may have.


Ok, I see where you are coming from. With all do respect, I have my own concerns that need addressing. I don't have the time or energy to educate you about Reformed Theology.

Although you did confirm one of my suspicions and that is that many non-Calvinists consider Calvinists 'Hypers.'

I'm sure there are many others who will be willing to help you understand/clarify where we are coming from or you can just check out the Highway Home Page.

God Bless,

AC


The mercy of God is necessary not only when a person repents, but even to lead him to repent, Augustine

Re: Does a denial of the gospel's free offer = Hyp [Re: AC.] #38166
Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:36 PM
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Thanks for the info and sorry to have taken up your time.

However, for clarification, I did not say I considered all Calvinists as "hyper"; I did say it was a misnomer. My point was that if someone choose to make such a distinction, that some were "hyper" while others were not, it would be unjustified based on the premise that all Calvinists adhere to "unconditional election".

Personally, I consider all Calvinists as...Calvinists (therefore, you can't rightfully use me as one who confirms one of your "suspicions").

Re: Does a denial of the gospel's free offer = Hyper...? [Re: AC.] #38167
Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:51 PM
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HYPER-CALVINSIM:

* Denies that the gospel makes any "offer" of Christ, salvation, or mercy to the non-elect (or denies that the offer of divine mercy is free and universal)

* Denies that God has any sort of love for the non-elect





Notice the avoidance of the word "reprobate". scared


.




Re: Does a denial of the gospel's free offer = Hyp [Re: lookn4ward2heavn] #38168
Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:14 PM
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lookn4ward2heavn said:
2. Why is the call for men to repent "effectual to some" and not to all who hear it?

It is effectual to some because only those who have been regenerated (given a new nature/predisposition toward God) are capable of hearing and repenting. See here:

- Calling and Repentance, by Abraham Kuyper
- Efficacious Grace, by Loraine Boettner
- The Call that Brings a Response, by Errol Hulse

Quote
lookn4ward2heavn asked:
3. By the way, where does the Bible affirm this concept of God having a "hidden" will with reference to the salvation of men? What is that "hidden will". If hidden, how do you know there is such a will in God the first place?

"Hidden will" is a misnomer in that all of what God has willed has not been revealed but there are many things which He has revealed about His will, e.g., the entire Bible. It is indisputable that God has decreed (willed) that some of Adam's fallen race have been chosen in Christ unto salvation from eternity and some passed by and left in their sins. But who those chosen to salvation are is not revealed, i.e., the actual names of individuals has not been set forth. Thus it can rightly be said that such information is "hidden". (cf. Acts 13:48; 18:19, 20; et al)

Quote
lookn4ward2heavn said:
Please understand, these questions are not given to affirm or deny Calvinism per se. I think the answers to these questions may show that all who believe in Calvinism are "hyper" (if it be insisted that only some are to be designated as such) because they all agree to the concept of "unconditional election", regardless of whatever other doctrinal disagreements they may have.

You are wanting to redefine a term which has been established for centuries, evidently due to your rejection of biblical Calvinism. Calvinists evangelize the lost due to God's unconditional election knowing that those who have been predestinated to salvation will come through the preaching of the Gospel; "the power of God unto salvation". We do not call sinners to repentance and hope that some will of their own free-will 'decide for Jesus', which is not taught in Scripture, and which they are totally incapable of doing unless God the Spirit first regenerates them and enables them to do so. We evangelize with a sure confidence that men will come to Christ according to God's eternal and sovereign will and not due to some baseless and irrational hope that dead sinners will hear and respond to the call. wink

In His grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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Re: Does a denial of the gospel's free offer = Hyp [Re: William] #38169
Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:22 PM
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RE: William's response to the "HYPER-CALVINSIM" comments:

I see no need to include "reprobate"; it is assumed (at least, to me) in the term "non-elect".

As stated, adding "reprobate" does not change what it is affirmed the teachings of Calvinism deny.

Re: Does a denial of the gospel's free offer = Hyp [Re: lookn4ward2heavn] #38170
Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:54 PM
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lookn4ward2heavn said:

I see no need to include "reprobate"; it is assumed (at least, to me) in the term "non-elect".




Yes but that is not what some are trying to teach.


They maintain that the gospel call is a gracious offer on the part of God to every hearer or that the offer is God's expressed desire to save all to whom the gospel comes and this in my opinion is an election unconnected with a decree of reprobation and is not biblical.


William

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Re: Does a denial of the gospel's free offer = Hyper...? [Re: AC.] #38171
Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:57 PM
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AC, I am glad you read the Halloween article written by our retired pastor. My Hyper-Calvinist article is on the blog, as of today.I see this forum subject is going nicely. Good! argue claphands I'll be back later. Gotta cut some z's. bigglasses

Re: Does a denial of the gospel's free offer = Hyper...? [Re: ] #38172
Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:23 PM
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graceman said:
AC, I am glad you read the Halloween article written by our retired pastor. My Hyper-Calvinist article is on the blog, as of today.I see this forum subject is going nicely. Good! argue claphands I'll be back later. Gotta cut some z's. bigglasses


Good article - can't find much fault with it.

I still have concern for those 'Christians' who do not accept the whole counsel of GOd (including the difficult doctrines of total depravity, election and predestination) but I do believe we should be loving and patient towards them!!! This goes beyond Calvinsim vs Arminianism or Augustianism vs Semi-Pelagism or any ism - we are talking the Word of GOd and the truths that lie therein. We need to weed out the heresies and accept even the most difficult truths that are in opposition to our carnal nature.


The mercy of God is necessary not only when a person repents, but even to lead him to repent, Augustine

Re: Does a denial of the gospel's free offer = Hyp [Re: AC.] #38173
Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:24 AM
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AC. said: I still have concern for those 'Christians' who do not accept the whole counsel of GOd (including the difficult doctrines of total depravity, election and predestination)...

1. Calvinism is not the "whole counsel of God". Calvinism the interpretation of a few men of what is believed to be the teachings of the Bible. Unfortunately, not all of what is taught is Biblical (at least, as I read the Bible).

2. Why are you concerned for those who do not accept Calvinistic teachings? Are you suggesting that those who reject Calvinism are not genuine Christians and need to be repent and be saved? Are you suggesting that those who confess Jesus as Lord but adhere to, for example, Arminian (which is not Pelagian) teachings to one degree or another are not saved?

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