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Joe k said:
Then Pilgrim, your seminary is wrong in its definition!!!! . . . Where did you go the PRC seminary in GR Michigan?
The definition of what? BTW, it is hardly my seminary! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> Yes, the PRC seminary was one which I studied at. And as much as it has proven to be impossible to do, I would prefer to forget the time I spent there. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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Joe k continues:
Benevolence is not denied by true HC's, but saving grace, agape grace per se is denied. Of which I agree with.The scripture of the sun and rain is used to promote some common grace, but it is in serious error, becuase if that were the case then those who receive more sun or more rain would be considered in better shape!!!!.
Let's understand one thing here. One would be hard-pressed to find any individual and/or group that would attribute the term "hyper-Calvinist" to themselves. Secondly, no true Calvinist would affirm that true grace, i.e., salvific grace pertains to any but the elect. Thirdly, as you would find from reading some of the past discussions here in regard to the topic of "Common Grace", many of us who are within the historic, traditional Calvinistic camp lament over the actual term "Common grace" as it more often than not creates unnecessary confusion; ala "grace". However, that God displays kindness/benevolence, in that He has withheld immediate judgment upon them and also providentially provides for their sustenance in many cases cannot be denied. Since it is within God's sovereign prerogative to give whatever He wills to whomsoever He wills, the lack which some may experience is no argument against the fact that He does, in fact, show kindness to the reprobate as well as the elect.

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Joe k continues:
I will tell you who the true Hypers are, and that are the hardshellers. Those who say an elect person can live their whole life without coming to faith. Those that do not evangelize. Those who look for evidence of ones election before preaching the Gospel. WHo was the guy who argued with William Gadsby about evangelising? He was a hardsheller.
Your definition simply doesn't fit the term, "hyper-Calvinist" because to deny the necessity of one coming to faith in Christ for salvation is not only outside the pale of Calvinism, it is contrary to historic Christianity as a whole. The accepted understanding of "hyper" is that which is "above, beyond, a distortion of" Calvinism. That such people who describe as "hardshellers" are extremist is true. But I cannot consider them to be even loosely Calvinists.

In His grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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