In reply to:Fatalism has nothing at all to do with Calvinism. Fatalism is a false doctrine and not a biblical doctrine. Fatalism is not Calvinism—you need to look up your definitions before making sweeping “general” comments, that you “still” fail to back up with Scripture.
Let me show you were I am coming from. I take this definition. Total Inability or Total Depravity Because of the fall, man is unable of himself to savingly believe the gospel. The sinner is dead, blind, and deaf to the things of God; his heart is deceitful and desperately corrupt. His will is not free, it is in bondage to his evil nature, therefore, he will not - indeed he cannot - choose good over evil in the spiritual realm. Consequently, it takes much more than the Spirit's assistance to bring a sinner to Christ - it takes regeneration by which the Spirit makes the sinner alive and gives him a new nature. Faith is not something man contributes to salvation but is itself a part of God's gift of salvation - it is God's gift to the sinner, not the sinner's gift to God.
"Man is unable to himself to savingly believe in the gospel". To me this is fatalism defined "The doctrine that all events are predetermined by fate and are therefore unalterable"
That has given my the conclusion I draw which is puffiness because I don't think this is the Bible.
And from everything you have said you have not indicated otherwise, so what am I to think. If you can't explain yourself or you read the Bible differently and back it up with verses that I think you are misreading then what am I to think? All the words of calvanisms 5 points lead to fatalism. Perhaps you don't believe in fatalism but why do you use such uncomfortable words to describe fatalism in calvins 5 points of fatalism. You should be using armenianism points that are clear against fatalism and also respect God's will to give man a free will depraved or not.
In reply to:If I did not think that the articles on this website properly interpreted the Word of God, I would not direct you to them. But, you are right the articles will not assist you in your present condition because you cannot understand them. But since, there are over a 1000 articles here and you have not read them “all” (if any) how can you condemn them? You cited:
I have more spiritual writings to read right now but I don't condemn your website. The only thing I do disaprove of is your inability to explain reformed calvanism and I disaprove of calvanism because it uses fatalistic language on all 5 points. Its really simple why I believe what I believe when I compare Steele's simple definition of each of the 5 points of armenianism and calvanism
In reply to:But, where is your readiness of mind and searching of the Scriptures to disprove Calvinism. You have violated the very thing you claim to adhere too.
How so? My words find peace in comparing steele's definition of armenian vs calvanism. armenian preserves God given man's free will. calvanism is fatalistic in its choice of words leading to reformed calvanism whatever that is. I don't know what that is yet because you can't put it into words to describe it.
In reply to:Calvinism is very simple for the regenerate to understand. Though I could have saved an immense amount of time by just you reading, The Five Points of Calvinism, by W.J. Seaton please simply read this:
The Bible says we are NATURALLY SINFUL: by birth [Ps 51.5] and practice [Gen 6.5]. The Scripture informs us that we are BOUND: [2 Tim 2.25]. It demonstrates to us that we are BLIND, DEAF, and DUMB [Luke 6:39, 7:22]. The Bible instructs us that we, by nature are DEAD [Rom 5.12]. It illustrates to us that we are UN-INSTRUCTABLE [1 Cor 2.14]. Thus, man is depraved. When was the last time you saw a dead man heal himself?
Some have trouble believing that God could pass by some and elect others (unconditional election). Yet, like you, they have no difficulty in trusting that God called Abraham out of the Ur of the Chaldees and left the others (unconditional election). Why should God choose the nation of Israel as His "peculiar people"? Why did God choose the younger son Jacob (disregarding the customary family laws of Israel), over the elder Esau? (Rom 9.11-13). Thus, one who does not believe in unconditional election clearly does not believe the Word of God.
Now we are getting somewhere. Each of these points are not unconditional. They are conditional. Abraham, Jacob were conditional. Why because they were receivable. It may not say that in no uncertain terms but the fact of the matter that is why they were chosen because of their receivableness. Think of it this way. Scan the globe in those days. OF all to be chosen It was Abraham and Jacob. Why? Because they were receivable. God did not choose the native indians of north america or the incas of peru or the chinese or the mongolians. God chose the most righteous men or should I say the least unrighteous to begin revealing his redemptive design to. Yes it was God's grace but man first played a part in reception. Otherwise it is all fatalism. So becaus the man fulfilled a condition however small or great, God moved because he found the right person to move in. Otherwise you get fantasy island and God moving like roulette player laying down chips on a roulette wheel randomly. My loving God does not do that. My loving God is purposeful and meaningful and that is what is being shown in these various deeper life Christian authors I am guiding you to. Yes man is depraved but still God won't touch man's free will.
In reply to:1. Christ died to save all men without distinction.
If, Christ died to save all men, then, all men will be saved. If, Christ paid the debt of sin, for all men, then all men will be saved. Is unbelief a sin? Yes! If, Christ died for all the sins (including unbelief) of all men then none could ever be lost for their unbelief is atoned for!
2. Christ died to save no one in particular.
Some say, Christ obtained only a potential salvation for all men, although He paid the debt of our sin. Even though Christ said, “it is finished,” His work on the Cross does not become effectual until man makes a decision for Christ and is thereby saved. Thus, man becomes the author (initiator) of his own salvation. But, this is in violation of Scripture—Eph 2:8-10, et. al.
3. Christ died to save a certain number.
Christ died certainly and effectually to save a specific number of hell-deserving sinners. Christ paid the debt for the elect and only them. Christ died to save a particular number of sinners; those for whom He Himself said He shed His blood: This is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many, for the remission of sins [Matt 26.28], that is, those chosen in him before the foundation of the world [Eph 1.4]; those whom the Father had given him out of the world [John 17.9].
If Christ died to save all men, not all men will be saved necesarily but Jesus laid the groundwork for all to be saved. ALl men that believe will be saved. Do you see the difference? It is not righteous and holy to say Christ died for all men to saved so all men should be saved for again it is killing man's free will and makes man an automaton and is fatalism. If you don't agree with fatalism then why do you speak fatalistically? Ephesians 2:8-10 says "not of ourselves" yes not of ourselves, salvation is from GOd but just because we choose God does not mean we saved ourselves for God still does the saving all from Himself. Do you see? "not of works" means I can go do things to be saved. This does not mean choice for God is a work for it is a choice. Can you see the difference? Free will is not a work. It is stationary unworking. In its purest form it is yea or neah workless. Matt 26.28 Eph 1.4 John 17.9 are on the basis of God knowing who would come to Him so it is not save a certain number because God picked a certain number but because God knew a certain number only would come to Him. Do you see the difference? Otherwise it is puffy fatalism.
In reply to:If men are unable to save themselves on account of their fallen depraved nature (as proven Scripturally above), and if God has purposed to save them, and Christ has accomplished their salvation, then it logically follows that God must also provide the means for calling them into the benefits of that salvation which He has procured for them. Irresistible grace is proven from Scripture:
The overcoming, that is letting God apply the redemptive design to your life takes place after initial salvation and is substitory death and codeath ongoing of deliverance from sin, self and supernatural. Again men do not save themselves. God does the saving, men make the choice to come. Like Billy Graham says, come, come now. Like the movie matrix, Neo said to the oracle "why ask me what choice I am going to make if you already know I made it?" Oracle says to Neo "because you have already made the choice, now you are hear to understand why you made the choice". Same in Christ, we have made the choice, now we are here to know why we made the choice. YOu have said you made the choice because God picked you fatalistically. God told me He saved me because I chose Him. We are worshipping two different God's. Can you see that? Whomever your God is not the God of the Bible to tell you that you had no choice in the matter. My God of the Bible says I chose and He chose me. One way is the machine world, the orther is God's great reality. We are led by God because we first chose Him.
In reply to:Exodus 19:12-13 And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death: There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.
Leviticus 20:2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.
Numbers 15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.
These are not gifts but judgments.
In reply to:I do not see any of your examples in Scripture and since you have been given ample opportunity to interact with the Scripture and failed to do so, they must not be there.
Don't assume this. All verse are cited that have sin in them. There are thousands. Choose any at your leisure. Examine the varying degrees of possession in each, from slight obsesison all the way to full blown demon possession in the Christian.
In reply to:The will when given to Adam and Eve was perfect, but had the capacity to fall. Once fallen it was no longer perfect, but dead and unable to communicate with God, unless God choose to communicate first—simply look at Adam and Eve. Unregenerate man’s reaction to a holy God is to hide and cloth himself with his own works to hide his own sin—they make good Arminians. Only regenerate man has been given the capacity again to choose as Adam and Eve could. Thus, regeneration comes before conversion
How do we know man's will had the capacity to fall? Because it fell. Does God have the capacity to fall? Yes. But he chooses not to and that happens to be why He is God for to this day he has never sinned because it is unrighteous of Him to do so and God is limited by His righteousness. It is a wild circulur thought but it is true. Can God sin by free will? Yes. Will he? no. Why? Its unrighteous. The same access to sin is given to us and do we adhere to unrighteousness? No. Why? Obviously because we are not God. Regeneration is conversion. Man has been given the capacity to turn to God. How? Not by calvinism. but by the redemptive design being shown in the Word. From the law, to the Christ to the cross to to the resurrection to the ascension and descension of HS, to the rapture and the kingdom and the new jerusalem. This is how God redeems buy supply all of this in Christ. He does not falalize us. He never touches our free will.
