In reply to:[color:"blue"]I must say that you have spent more time deifying Watchman Nee than Christ. You have offered many disjuncted statements yet extremely few passages from God's inspired, infallible and inerrant Word to show that what you say and believe actually is what God has taught in His Word. You refuse to read any article offered to you yet you want everyone to read Watchman Nee. Those who have read Watchman Nee, and I am one, you say don't understand what he has written, and only YOU are able to correctly understand him. (we have another individual here who makes the same claim about his erroneous doctrines too!) If it is true that none here are able to correctly understand Nee, then he has failed miserably with his "genius" to communicate what he believed.You also claim that the reason you reject the biblical doctrine of "Total Depravity" because, in your own words, "It doesn't seem right to me". Thus your preference is to reject the clear teaching of God's inspired, infallible and inerrant Word for the doctrines of men, which Christ warned about would happen as did Paul and Peter.
Don't think that about Nee. He is just a man. Where is the deifying? He is someone that can help you, writes very well very spiritually far better than I could. I provide all verses of the bible to make my case and all those you have supplied. What articles did you want me to read. Why can't we just stick to the Bible? Again you say you understand Nee but I don't see it in your words? So that is that. I understand Nee, that is that. Why you choose not to understand and read his words incorreclty is obviously the flesh. I do not reject Total Depravity because it merely emotionally is wrong but scripturally it is wrong. For the verse in scripture says "God foreknew" and "Whosoever comes to the Father must believe unto the Son" This is free will not fatalism of calvanism. Even man's sin nature however depraved does not say God induces man's will. No. Man's will is free. God pushes and prods provides the redemptive design but he does not impinge. Your god is playing a board game with himself wth pieces he controls. My God does not control His pieces. He leaves them free. The reason you can't understand Watchman Nee and the calvanists here is because it is possible that calvanism is a sign of unsalvation and Nee being the most spiritual Christian that I have ever known leads me to believe that indeed it is true, that man can't save man. You have your own free will. To think you are not an automoton or believe you are. You are an automaton to a god, but it is not my God of the Bible. So I use scripture to show total depravity is wrong and I receive the Holy Spirits testimony to my spirit and my spirit concurs agreeing in spirit. Do you see? Plus my brothers gather 2 or 3 or more together agree. Are you my brothers in Christ? I am not to sure about that. Either you are saved or you are a possessed Christian under the demon of Calvanism.
In reply to:[color:"blue"]And, for your information, Calvinism has never taught that man's will is not "free". In fact Calvinism has stressed the biblical truth that man is indeed a "free agent". No man is forced to do anything against his will. God never violates the will of man in any situation. However, what you have failed to learn from the Spirit of the Word of God is that when Adam sinned in the Garden of Eden, he DIED!. The image of God with which man was first created did not die...... but it was grossly distorted. Sin permeated all of man's being because his spiritual nature died. No longer did man have any interest or love for God. No longer did man have a desire to do that which was right in the eyes of God. But mankind was controlled by his sin nature, which was God's punishment upon him for Adam's disobedience, which He had promised would happen should Adam eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.Man freely chooses that and ONLY that which he desires, as is the case with every creature of God. No unregenerate man will ever seek after God because he innately hates God. Isn't this what Paul clearly says:
Yes Adam's spirit was deadened. I realize this. Yet this does not change the fact that his free will was not responsible still. And this is where we differ. You do not distinguish between man's sin nature and the man himself, and that is why you need to learn the dividing of spirit, soul and body. A bipartate view of man is a fallen man. God's way tripartate. Read this. www3.telus.net/trbrooks
man has a soul and in his soul it has the function of mind, will and emotion. the sin nature is in the flesh. the flesh is sin of the body and self of the soul. man's free will is not renewed, yet if given the right redemptive design it is capable of choosing God. that redemptive design is shown in Christ coming in the flesh, the law, the resurrection. Given these things man could see the choice for Christ, for God, for His coming, by the law showing man's sin and sin showing Christ and Christ showing the eternal kiingdom, millennial kingdom, things of the heavenlies and rapture and Great Trib and all of it. God didn't touch man's free will and just because man fell does not mean God will infringe on it. God did everything it was all of GOd yet in all of it God never touched man's free will before the fall and after the fall. As depraved as man was after the fall with his sin nature and his spirit deadened insensitive to things of God and a damaged will, damaged emotion and damaged mind, he still retained his free which God never touches. just like the movie Jim Carrie and Morgan Friedman in Burce Almighty, the most basic concept of all is one rule "God is not allowed to play with man's free will" That is why it is free because once he gave it he doesnt come back and reenergize it or give it a boost or add to it. Uh uh. Don't believe the god that teaches you this. Then men that won't come to this redemptive desire will remain animals. The one's that do come to God's redemptive design are His children. I Feel so special that I am His. I would not feel anything if I knew it was a board game and I am a machine. You in my humble eyes are committing an actual sin saying God plays with man's free will after the fall. I believe you have read Romans 3.10 legalistically always a danger in scripture. Pentecostals like to read tongues legalistically out of context. How is it different for you? This verse is saying man is utterly deplorable by his way of doing things. That is all. This again is not to say that man can't by his free will come to God by God's leading. Do you see the difference? One way is so pure and righteous and fills me up and the other is dead nothingness really when you think about it. Free will is alive even in the man "who does not understand" yet he chooses God. So again this verse is saying of man of himself. Not the man who says NO to himself and YES to God for that door has been made available now in God's cross.
In reply to:[color:"blue"]Can you from the Scriptures.... God's inspired, infallible and inerrant Word show me where Paul erred in his understanding and thus believe what Arminianism teaches?These things the Spirit of God has taught me and ingrained in my mind and heart. The Spirit also has shown me that Watchman Nee did not teach what He once delivered unto the Saints. He has impressed this upon my soul and taken me to the Bible, of which He Himself was the Author, and shown me the truth of God. Can you SHOW ME where in God's holy Word that what you believe is taught? Please don't direct me to your website or another website to read something of Watchman Nee. The Bible is the final and sole authority in all matters of faith and practice. Thus, as Christ did, so you also should do and open the Scriptures and show me/us where these things are taught. If you care at all about us as those created in the image of God, you will fulfill this request, as it is God's will that you do so.
I can not show where Paul erred for he did not err and thus he does believe in armeniast view. What is it about Nee that you disagree with that I have not dealt with already? May I suggest that you and I believe in two different Gods and only one of is right if you feel the Holy Spirit is speaking to you. I site all verses you have displayed, and all verses of scripture. Each verse you have shown I have used to show you how you read it legalistically and thus unprofitably for your life and your spirit fatalistically. As per your request each and every verse you used I used. Your spirit reads each verse differently. I admit I am not skilled at pulling verses on a moments notice. But nor do I have to be. There is enough me who taken the argument to its fullest length pulling every verse from this side of kingdom to make their points but is this really necessary. Is it not so simple to realize that God does not touch our free will not then, not today, and not tomorrow. Calvanism says we are fatalized. NO! Why do you need a scripture beyond the garden to prove it is not fatal. WE know man's sin nature is deplorable but to assume that we are so utterly hopeless to receive God if He gives us a way is wrong of you to say and is antibiblical. Why? Simple reason that the discples chose Jesus and yet even at that point they still had not been given the indwelling Holy Spirit until resurrection. Jesus picked them out because He knew whom to pick. He did not play roulette. I can never believe that. Doesn't it prove that one of the disciples betrayed Jesus and was not saved and did not receive the Holy Spirit while the rest of the disciples did receive the Holy Spirit. So even though one of the disciples was called he had free will to refuse and that is exactly what he did - Judas. Did you know citing scripture can be works of the flesh? Be careful.
All these words are from the scriptures. Hath you an ear to hear?
