Okay, okay ! Don't all rush me at once.

Thanks Tom,

http://www.m-w.com has 'heretic' expressed two ways.

1. a dissenter from established religious dogma; especially : a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church who disavows a revealed truth
2. one who dissents from an accepted belief or doctrine

The first one certainly does not apply to me as I was baptised as a Prebyterian at 4 months of age, in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. (I still retain the certificate). I however do not agree with all that is taught under the larger banner of Presbyterian dogma. If I was a declared physical member of said church, then I would have long been labelled a subversive thinker who likes to question the accuracy of dogma, dare I say the existence of dogma at all. Just me be nefarious (fragrantly wicked or impious) <I have never been one to just say, 'Yes, Sir' and charge off to do battle in the name of love, or Rome or the inquisition. I tend to hold up my shield of faith, and keep my sword in the sheath until I am sure that I am dealing with bona fide heretic, and then I would need to make sure that I have a direct word from God before I utter such words directly.

Now to the matter of how the Holy Spirit has been bringing the various denominations to a point where there is the Unity that Jesus prayed for in John 17, and to the matter of progressive revelation to the body of Christ as a whole <invisible body - true spirit-filled believers/the elect/disciples of Jesus Christ. I am firmly convinced that what happened to the early church has happened throughout the years.

I wish I could remember everything I have read about Church History and I am deeply sorry I cannot. It is however true to say that God started this and He is continuing to bring His bride to a place where she is unified in the bond of PEACE. (The peace of Christ, of course, not the sort that is being celebrated by the likes of so many who are caught up in a hyper-emotional over-balance, be careful now that we shut the door to tight, for in amongst those who are wolves are baby lambs who like you and I, had to learn to look not to the teachers but to the Master. He is the Great Shepherd of the sheep.) Even the great John Calvin, requested and unmarked grave! It is to Christ that we look and to Him we are under as Head of the Church, not the Church as head, as is taught by Rome. I do not bow to a man, or a organisation be it Rome or the rest of Christiandom)

Agreed certain things like this matter of a gross overbalance on the teaching faith = prosperity, which Copeland attempted to correct. I listened to his series on this.. He really was trying very hard, to correct and error in his perception, but some errors are harder to change as we get older. Needless to say freezing in dogma mode is just as hazardous as freezing in error mode, both do not allow the flexibility that is required from us to notice when the Spirit of God moves on. The Church History has shown that God has moved on, and on, and on, He is not sitting back with one denomination and saying, "They have it all down, and I am calling all to unite under their denomination", as with what is happening with Rome. The errors of Rome are literal when something is spiritual and visa versa. They have relied so much on the dogma that they no longer can see or hear, but they are trying, this Emergent Edge though harmful to some represents two ragged edges crossing over each other. On one side the Protestant Mystics, and the other side the Catholic Mystics...it is a strange thing to have happened, a little frightening. Yes. However, it is not a trainsmash, it is actually possibly the first time that we might see a Church unified under one ideal. It may be grossly wrong, but it is something that needs to be very carefully considered before we make the mistake of shouting, "Heretics" and bring us back to the dark ages. There is a point to consider though. This is not a outing in the park with Winnie the Pooh, this is war, and Satan is right in the cente of this Mystical Alliance. He is the Lord of the Mystics (evil Wizards) but he is not Lord of the Good Wizards. <please excuse my JRR Tolkien reference, it is not done without definite reason. Why?

In my perception of the matter, if you may. We are all Wizards, some are with Satan, and some are with Christ. As we are coming of age and closer and closer to full maturation, it is getting harder and harder to tell a good one from a bad one. To tell a wolf from a sheep. The false doctrines have allowed Bad Wizards to creep in and using similar words and ideas, the showdown is being set for a gigantic delusion. (God inspired) It is WAR, and I am sorry to say this that if we remain cerebral about everything in this war, we are going to be watching rather than participating. So gents if you are going to sit on the sidelines and pass comments, you will be useless in the fray.

Making sense of what appears to be senseless is better than having a high and mighty attitude. If you want to sit in judgment and not get dirty, then you need to look to the mind of Christ, who being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be equal with God ... and the descent into what we are to be, we need to be servants of all men, to truly be his friends, to sit on a mushroom aka. Lewis Carrolesque smoking our hooka <no direct implication to the head honch meant... is to miss the boat that sails in the morning and it is right into the middle of the problem area. No time to take pretty pain killers, we need to shake of the dust of death and put on the armour if we are to really wrestle, we are not called to wrestle with flesh and blood, with men like "___________" and "___________" < purposefully done because I desire to keep my sword in the sheath until the right moment.

Those who refer to Rick Warren and Robert Schuller and Diaprax and whatever, this is old new and the Pied Pipers of Purpose make mince meat out of there scheme, however there is an Emergent edge that is attempting to bring about some form of unity in the Body of Christ and if one is going to go all intellectual and not look deeper to the cry that is going up to the Father for a body unified. It is a bit messy right now, but if we are going to do what has been done, cutting off the circulation to the finger and the toes, because the mind says, the head is right and we are the head, we do need to remember that there is ONE HEAD, even Christ Jesus our Lord. It is to Him that we need to voice our disatisfaction about those with whom we disagree and learn to find the towel, the water, the means whereby to clean what is dirty, not continue to anaethitize, there is nothing worse that ANTI-SEPTIC CHRISTIANITY, IT REVEAL A GREAT BIG BOARD IN THE EYE!

Do I sound to much like Brennan Manning, I am sorry, it is not my intention to stay longer on this board that is neccessary, for I have much work to do. It is simply that I have many true brothers and sisters in Christ who are in other denominations and for this I will not allow my dogma to kill their faith, even if it is defective. I will approach as the Scripture instructs in 'the spirit of meekeness' This is how I believe I am being led. I do not expect you to embrace the Light in this way, but if you have a heart you might realize that of all brothers I have stood hard against Rome and it's dogma, and hard against the like of RW. BH. and their ilk, but it is time to look carefully at what we are doing to one another, it is time only see if they have the Spirit of Christ or not. If we see the Spirit of Christ, then we need to pray, to care but not to hold weighty JUDGMENTS as did Robin. Eternally damning a brother or sister makes us in the hot water...just try to keep in mind what Jesus said, about calling others names...Racca is a very hard word.

Not dead yet.