The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Arminian Atonement of John Piper

Pilgrim,

You studied at the PR seminary in Grandville MI? Interesting! Be that as it may, yet the PRC do not espouse eternal justification, nor do I, BTW, but for a different reason. Their position is actually identical with what you have just clearly stated concerning the issue (and, I do not disagree with you, however paradoxical it may seem to you). I could quote to you from Professor Engelsma, arguably the brightest star and foremost of present day PR theologians, on this point, but I don't think that is necessary now.
My own position is this: I believe in a threefold justification, or in one grand justification which has three different aspects, or facets:
#1 - A decretal justification, an eternal perspective upon the elect as they are viewed IN Christ, the Perfecter of the Covenant;

#2 - A real, historic justification through the oblation of Christ on the cross,

#3 - An entrance by faith into a conscious enjoyment / possession of justification.

Perhaps, in distinction from the real "eternal justification" folks I don't stress the eternal decretal aspect to the point of downplaying the other two. I may be revealing colossal ignorance, but I don't tie up my position to my supralapsarianism either. My only real difference with you, as I perceive it, is this: I would be careful not to confuse the application of justification to the conscience of the regenerate elect, with the ACTUAL justification which took place two millennia ago. I would also say, that in a real sense, faith does not precede justification, but justification, with the subsequent resurrection (regeneration - resurrection with Christ) precedes faith, yet personal faith does precede a conscious learning / knowledge of one's salvation / justification in Christ.
Again, the "beef" with the traditional rhetoric is this: how can regeneration, with the subsequent faith and via it, justification occur without prior justification? Please, recall that Christ would not have been raised without our justification (Ro.4:25), and so our spiritual resurrection / regeneration being effected by our justification in Christ, cannot precede it!

Does this make sense to you?