The Highway Forums General Discussion Devotional The Deep, Deep Love of Jesus

I am NOT saying any such thing! God didn't "change" at the incarnation. The eternal Word, the second person of the Trinity took on human flesh, joining Himself with a human body to become the "God-man". The aseity of God was not compromised in any way, shape or manner whatsoever. Let's look at how Paul describes this historic event:

In the Philippian passage we see that it was the Son of God who emptied himself by humbling himself by 'being made in the likeness of men', aka: the incarnation; God joined himself with a human body. Thus there existed in the Lord Christ two distinct natures; the divine and the human. As Chaceldon states, there is no confusion of the two natures, but rather, they are distinct. The Son of God did not 'change' nor was He 'incomplete' without the incarnation.

In the Timothy passage we see this same truth, that God was 'manifested', that is He appeared to mankind in the form of a human. The two natures were joined together but not 'confused'. God remained the eternal God, the creator of all things while the human nature, Jesus of Nazareth remained perfectly human. More on application of this fundamental truth below.

I am NOT saying any such thing. It was God's eternal purpose and decree to redeem a remnant of fallen mankind by sending the Son to become man in the person of the Lord Christ. That purpose was sealed in the eternal "Covenant of Redemption", i.e., a covenant made between the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

"Although the term “Covenant of Redemption” is not a biblical designation, the teaching that, from before the creation of the world, the persons of the Trinity entered into a solemn pact to accomplish the work of redemption, the Father promising to give a people to the Son as his inheritance, the Son undertaking to accomplish their redemption, and the Spirit covenanting to testify to Christ, and apply his redemption to his people's hearts, is most evidently biblical. Thus, according to the divine testimony, the Lamb was already considered as “slain from the foundation of the world” (Rev. 13:8) so certainly was the agreement to accomplish redemption established before history.

Several biblical passages give clear testimony to the concept of the Covenant of Redemption. One of the primary is Psalm 2, which depicts Christ relating the terms of the Covenant that the Father had established with him. Isaiah 53:10-12 also speaks of the covenantal agreement between the Father and the Son in the accomplishing of redemption; and Ephesians 1:3-14 gives a trinitarian picture of the roles that each person of the godhead undertook from eternity to perform. However, the clearest and best passages depicting the Covenant of Redemption are to be found in the Gospel of John. There, Jesus repeatedly speaks of the work that the Father gave him to do, the glorious reward that he was promised, and the sending of the Spirit to apply the benefits of his redemption and bring about in fact the promised reward of a redeemed people, that was merited by the Son's unerring obedience to the Father (see John 5:17-31, 36-37, 43; 6:37-40, 57; 7:28-29, 38-39; 8:16-19, 26-29, 38, 42, 49-54; 9:4; 10:14-18, 25-30, 36-38; 12:23-28, 44-50; 13:3, 20, 31-32; 14:9-14, 16-20, 24-26; 15:8-15, 24-27; 16:7-16, 27-28; 17)."


I am NOT saying that Jesus Christ is not eternal. What I am saying and have all along is that the divine nature, the Son of God, the second person of the Trinity is eternal. But, the human nature, that which was born of Mary is not eternal, having a beginning but no end. Again, one must guard against 'confusing' the two natures of Christ.

Although the term “Covenant of Redemption” is not a biblical designation, the teaching that, from before the creation of the world, the persons of the Trinity entered into a solemn pact to accomplish the work of redemption, the Father promising to give a people to the Son as his inheritance, the Son undertaking to accomplish their redemption, and the Spirit covenanting to testify to Christ, and apply his redemption to his people's hearts, is most evidently biblical. Thus, according to the divine testimony, the Lamb was already considered as “slain from the foundation of the world” (Rev. 13:8) so certainly was the agreement to accomplish redemption established before history.

Again you are '[confusing] the two natures of Christ in your understanding of this passage. It nowhere states that the human Jesus created the worlds. To suggest such a thing would go against all logic. How could a man who was born into this world in space and time have created all things? The divine nature of Christ is the Creator, the human nature is decidedly not the Creator, which is not only illogical but irrational. It was God who created the body for the Son (Heb 10:5; Matt 1:20-23).

See above re: the 'confusing of the two natures of Christ'.

Again, you 'confuse the two natures' of Christ. The whole point of the Colossian passage is to establish the divinity' of the Lord Christ, which divinity created all things and not the humanity.

Strange you would write such a thing since "I" was the one who referenced you to the Chalcedon Creed which states perspicuously that there are two natures in the one Jesus Christ which cannot be intermixed (confused) or divided. These two natures are inseparably joined yet distinct. Obviously, this is something you cannot grasp or refuse to grasp.

Now, some final remarks concerning your proposition which is contrary to Scripture and to the unanimous testimony of the true Christ.

1. To state that Jesus was the "Word" (Jh 1:1-3) vs. the Son of God was the "Word, is to deny the incarnation (Jh 1:14). For Jesus of Nazareth having been CONCEIVED by the Holy Spirit was BORN of the virgin Mary, and thus cannot be eternal. God spoke of this historical event in Isaiah 9:6, "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:". Notice that a child is born (temporal) but a son is given, referring to the eternal Son of God, the second person of the Trinity. The 'child' referred to in this passage is prophesying the birth of Jesus of Nazareth, who never before existed.

2. To state that Jesus was the "Word" would mean that GOD died on the cross. The divine nature of Jesus Christ did not 'die', but rather the human nature died. The perfect man, the second Adam, was obedient unto death, crucified, buried and raised again on the third day, having been justified in the Spirit, He therefore is able to save all whom the Father gave Him. This is one of the fundamental truths of biblical and historic Christianity. Without the joining of the two natures; divine and human, there could be no salvation for anyone.

3. Lastly, why don't you interact with the passages I have pressed upon you in my previous reply? If nothing else, responding to the illogic of John 1:1-3,14 would be most appreciated. IF the "Word" = "Jesus", then verse 14 becomes sheer nonsense; "Jesus" became "Jesus" and dwelt among us... The alleged eternal Jesus became, came into existence???