The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Misery-Deliverance-Gratitude

Do all Reformed churches adhere to M-D-G as an experiential necessity for a true conversion to be an assurred reality in the life of a believer.

Specifially the misery as found in ROmans 7 where Paul expresses his frustrations as a dead sinner before a Rightous God.

Is Misery (at some point in the life of the saved) a necessary mark of the truely converted or can somebody be saved without ever experiencing the misery of being a totally depraved dead sinner before God?

thanks!

http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/ipb-e/epl-02/krhc1-03.txt

It’s important to rightly interpret of Romans 7. There is now a great battle in us, that which we loved in the past, we now hate and the result is that we get on our knees in prayer as a part of thankfulness to God and plead “God, be merciful to me, the sinner.”

In Romans 7 Paul is not a dead sinner but a saved sinner before a righteous God. If an unregenerate is speaking in Romans 7:15-25 fallen man has a free will and the gospel of grace is overthrown. An unregenerated man has no spiritual ability to fight against his sins and despises the law of God.

[color:"0000FF"]15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. [/color]

William

I have never heard of it, so I presume 'no'.

All true Reformed churches would adhere to the "M-D-G" experience as an essential mark of true conversion. If a person never comes under conviction, then why would they desire to be saved from sin when they do not consider themselves to be sinners? Head knowledge, albeit most necessary, doesn't save. This is what most modern churches teach, "Easy Believism", aka: Sandemanianism. True conversion involves the whole man; mind, emotions and will. You may sometimes read of this true living faith as consisting of these 3 elements: "notitia" (intellectual element), "assensus" (emotional element) and "fiducia" (volitional element) and contrasted with 3 spurious types of faith: Historical, Miraculous and Temporal.

It must be stressed that the conversion experience may and does differ with each individual. However, the basic elements will always be present despite the varying degrees of experience of them.

For more on this, see the following:

- The Great Change by A.W. Pink

- Soteriology - The Doctrine of Salvation, various articles in that section that pertain to your question.

In His grace,