In response to J Edwards who quoted

Quote
Not only did they try to deceive Wenamon with music, but Wenamon's idol got some help from a local charismatic prophet who was like the charismatic prophets in Canaan who "prophesied" ecstatically (spoke in unknown tongues) or in the sense of "singing with instrumental music."

Barton, George A., Archaeology and the Bible, 7Th Edition pgs 449-452 By: Kenneth Sublett

Why does the author consider these prophets to be 'charismatic.' If they are 'charismatic' then their prophesying comes from grace, charis. Paul does not use the derivative word for 'grace' to describe pagan experiences in I Corinthians 12. He uses another term. He uses charismata to refer to gifts that come from grace.

Do you believe the prophecies of pagans come from grace?

I do not have the original languages of origin, but your source seems to be very selective in this translation when he translates 'prophesy' as 'utter peculiar things' that were not consitent with the tradition of the church. I suspect the translation I quoted of this selection is more accurate. This reminds me of Jack Deere's argument that there was a bit of a conspiracy when someone changed the words from a book on Reformed history to say that one of Knox's mentors and contemporaries had 'sagacious foresight' instead of 'prophesied' as the original work had said. Deere argues that the Reformation in Scotland was accompanied by prophecy and various other 'charismatic' manifestions.


Quote
(Arabic: "listening"), the Sufi (Muslim mystic) practice of listening to music and chanting to reinforce ecstasy and induce mystical trance. The Muslim orthodox regarded such practices as un-Islamic...Sufis maintain that melodies and rhythms prepare the soul for a deeper comprehension of the divine realities and a better appreciation of divine music. Music, like other beautiful things, draws the Sufi closer to God, who is the source of beauty.

If your point is that Charismatics, who believe in prophecy, are known for exuberant music, then consider the following passage.

Elisha called for music when the kings wanted him to prophesy.

II Kings 3

15. But now bring me a minstrel. And it came to pass, when the minstrel played, that the hand of the Lord came upon him.
16. And he said, Thus saith the Lord, Make this valley full of ditches.



Last edited by Link; Sat Nov 19, 2005 2:58 AM.