The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Paedocommunion

Ehud states,

Are you saying that each person eating the Passover was required to drink 4 cups of wine a piece? I did not understand this to be the case, but would like to know more.

"Nor shall a person have less than four cups of wine." ....Rabhina, however, said: "At all events, the four cups cannot be conjoined, for each one represents a different duty."

R. Jehudah, said: "What benefit would children derive from wine? They should rather be given nuts, parched corn, etc., on the eve of Passover, so as to keep them awake at night, and that may make them inquire into the reason of the festivity."

It was said of R. Aqiba, that he would deal out nuts and parched corn on the eve of Passover to the children, in order to keep them awake and have them ask for reasons.

Boraitha, R. Eliezer said: On the night of the Passover the unleavened bread is snatched out of the children's hand in order to keep them awake and have them ask for the reason.

on the basis of Deuteronomy 16:2, we would expect to see participants (covenantal adult males) going to Jerusalem to keep the Passover. Additionally, on the basis of our understanding of Exodus 12:26-27, we would expect to see the children of the participants involved in catechism. Moreover, based on Exodus 12:3-4 and 12:21, we would expect to see a counting of adult males (a.k.a. "men") taking place around the time of the Passover. Finally, based on Numbers 9:1-6 and II Chronicles 30:8, we would expect to see an increased awareness and concern over ceremonial cleanness....

In John 6:10, the disciples (i.e., the apostles) made the men sit down on the grass; and we are told that the men numbered about five thousand. The disciples then distributed fish and barley loaves to them that were set down (v. 11). After gathering up twelve baskets full of fragments, the passage tells us, "then those men, when they had seen . . . " (v. 14). The parallel passage in Matthew is even clearer, for in Matthew 14:21 we read, "And they that had eaten were about five thousand men, beside women and children." It is very clear that the count was of men only (not because this was Passover, but because Passover was nigh).

The word used in Matthew 14:21 is often made to read besides, as though the men were in addition to women and children who were also present but uncounted. Although that alone would be sufficient to prove that the counting for the lambs was a counting of men only, the underlying Greek is even more devastating to the paedocommunionist's view. The Greek of v. 21 is chôris gunaikon, i.e. chôris plus genitive. The primary meaning of chôris plus genitive is "separated from someone, far from someone, without someone" (e.g. I Corinthians 11:11, which reads, "Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord" [emphasis added]). Note also that the cognates of this preposition have similar meanings. The verb means "divide" or "separate" and the noun, chôrismos, means "a division." So Matthew 14:21 at least teaches that the men (only) were numbered for the Passover feast.

Mark 6:44 seems also to bear this out, for Mark informs us "they that did eat of the loaves were about five thousand men." Period! Also Luke 9:13-14 says that "all this people" consisted of "about five thousand men." The only gospel that mentions women and children insists that the men were apart from them with the Passover nigh (Matthew 14:21; cf. John 6:4).