I tell you what, I always miss out on the good discussions. Why do they happen on the weekends when I am away from my computer!? Usually, by the time I come into work on Monday I am so far behind that it is even worthless to participate. Either that, or the person gets so rude and off post guidelines that he is banned and I can't respond with my two nickels worth anyway. Oh well....<br>I will try to ask "war against the saints" the same question I asked another arminian proponent who use to frequent here but has since given up and gone some where else. <br><br>I asked him:<br><br>Follow my thinking here: I would believe that in order for the Arminian to maintain a consistent belief in free will as being an essential part of what makes a person, then a man must have this essential part of him in heaven as well, correct? That is the typical argument from those who adhere to "free will:" What makes a person a person is the ability to make contrary choices. Well, if that is the case, will Christians have the ability to reject heaven when they arrive? Put another way, will they have the ability to rebel, as it were, like Satan and the other fallen angels?<br>If not, then does God eliminate man's ability to "free will" when they obtain heaven? Would that not be the same as God "forcing" his will upon the will of man? Basically, making them all obedient robots?<br><br>Personally, I just can not see how the free-will humanist/Arminian can escape such a dilemma. If they insist that men must have free-will here on earth, in order to be human, then that same power of free will must remain intact when the Christian arrives in glory (assuming he doesn't loose his salvation along his earthly way). That would definitely imply that just as men had the ability of free-will to reject salvation on earth, even after they made a commitment to Christ (i.e., loose his salvation), they will have the ability to leave heaven when they get there, and rebel against God. If not, then I see an inconsistency with the Arminian's system of theology; for if God can not make a person choose salvation here on this earth, or even prevent him from leaving Christ after he has commited to him; then God surely can not make the believer stay in heaven if he so chooses to leave it. <br><br>I am curious for some thoughts from the Arminian "free-will" crowd. Particularly some Biblical proof text of such a possibility if they believe a Christian can leave heaven after he arrives by the act of his free will.<br><br>I would be curious to see what war against the saints says.<br><br>Fred<br>

"Ah, sitting - the great leveler of men. From the mightest of pharaohs to the lowest of peasants, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" M. Burns