Originally Posted by JesusFan
One of the problems that I run into is that Christians understand that concept to mean that all of us are like a Hitler, all bad as we can be, but fail to see that it means that none of can can do anything to save us now!
1. Wrong... we are not nearly as bad as we could be, aka: UTTER Depravity due to the restraining power of the Holy Spirit. That all at conception are TOTALLY Depraved; every facet of one's nature is sinful and in rebellion against God is true.

2. That never ceases to amaze me, i.e., how so many can be so woefully illogical in their views. This is simply one perfect example of the noetic effects of sin. The mind, affections and will are all under the power of sin and let's not forget that all by nature are under the power of the "prince of the power of the air"; the Devil (Eph 2:2; 1Jh 5:19; Rev 12:9).

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simul iustus et peccator

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