<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"] 1) where in scripture does it speak of infant baptism?</font><hr></blockquote><p>Where does it speak of any age? It isn't a matter of age, but a sign of a covenant. The difference is that we orthodox folks see a continuity of the familial covenant in both testaments.<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]A.A.Hodge, who I respect highly even says we can presume. Presumption??</font><hr></blockquote><p>I think we all presume to a certain degree. Or are you going to tell me you know who the elect are?<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]2) Also, I do not believe linking circumcision with baptism washes either.</font><hr></blockquote><p>Well, the early church seemed to suppot it, as well as a millenia of church history. <br><br>Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: <br>Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. <br><br>Perhaps you would take a stab at this thread then: Who Departed?.<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"] Circumcision was performed in a Theocracy.</font><hr></blockquote><p>So, when the Jewish peoples were under other authorities they didn't circumcise? Because I believe they were under Roman rule and still practicing this?<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"] The circumcised males were born into the covenant people.</font><hr></blockquote><p> But not every Jew was elect. That's your dilemma. My child was born into a covenant relationship as well, and therefore receives the sign. elect or not, just as Jewish males did.<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"] We are not covenant people until we too are born (regeneration) into the spiritual family.</font><hr></blockquote><p>This isn't how it worked in the OT. Could you provide some scripture showing the discontinuity?<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"] It is then, upon profession of belief that we are baptized.</font><hr></blockquote><p>Again, some scripture, stating this is the specific way?<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"] Children of believers are not born into the covenant family until they too are regenerated.</font><hr></blockquote><p>Again, this is opposite how it worked in the OT. All Jewish people were born into the covenant, but not all were elect. There are several arguments made here for the VISIBLE CHURCH vs. the TRUE CHURCH. I suggest reading them, or showing you can list the elect infallibly.<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"] I do not see anywhere where anything but believers baptism is taught.</font><hr></blockquote><p>I can show several baptisms where the recipients profession isn't recorded. That is the dilemma for you though. You honestly don't uphold believers baptism, because you cannot know a persons heart infallibly. Only God knows His elect. You uphold PROFESSORS BAPTISM. You (uh oh) presume upon that profession, the individuals possibility of true election. <br><br>Nice to meet you, and hope this helped. God grant us all further grace and an openeing of our hearts.<br><br>God bless,<br><br>william
