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Re: Lordship Salvation Why So Controversial?
[Re: John_C]
#55654
Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:49 AM
Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:49 AM
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Tom
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John Yes, I remember the issue itself. I also know that MacArthur is not without some of the blame However, I also know that when some of his fellow Calvinists such as Dr. Michael Horton and Dr. RC Sproul talked to him about the matter. He agreed with them and I understand he tried to clarify what he believed; hoping it would clear up the matter. Yet, despite all that it did very little good concerning his critics. On the Lordship Salvation issue, there was no bigger supporter of MacArthur than RC Sproul. As an aside note, I have talked to a few Calvinists over the years who maintain that Lordship Salvation is heretical. Hmm..., makes me wonder if they believe those who agree with it are heretics as well? William Webster wrote an excellent article on Lordship Salvation, that can be found in the article section of the Highway. https://www.the-highway.com/lordship-salvation_Webster.htmlTom
Last edited by Tom; Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:00 AM.
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Re: Lordship Salvation Why So Controversial?
[Re: Tom]
#55797
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:07 PM
Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:07 PM
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li0scc0
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The problem with Lordship salvation is that it completely undermines the concept of salvation by grace through faith. It adds works as a condition of salvation. It is basically telling Calvin and Luther ‘nice try but we like our works’.
Grace is not common.
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Re: Lordship Salvation Why So Controversial?
[Re: li0scc0]
#55799
Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:52 PM
Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:52 PM
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Tom
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The problem with Lordship salvation is that it completely undermines the concept of salvation by grace through faith. It adds works as a condition of salvation. It is basically telling Calvin and Luther ‘nice try but we like our works’. It does nothing of the kind; did you actually read Webster’s article? Tom
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Re: Lordship Salvation Why So Controversial?
[Re: JesusFan]
#55898
Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:20 AM
Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:20 AM
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Posts: 13,911 NH, USA
Pilgrim

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The biblical truth is that the very moment God saves us in Christ, God Himself has placed Jesus as the Lord over his own, but when do need to keep on maturing in the faith, and walking out our salvation in this life. 1. Actually, Jesus IS Lord by virtue of His very being. He is LORD over every human being who was ever conceived, e.g., Acts 2:34-36 (KJV) 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 2. Practically speaking, one is not saved by making Jesus "Lord" enough in their life. Nor is one saved by not making Jesus as "Lord" in their life. One is saved by having been regenerated by the Spirit, brought to genuine conviction of sin, repentance, faith in the person of Jesus the Christ and being clothed in His perfect righteousness via imputation, and being adopted as a son/daughter of God; by God. A true believer is indeed sanctified progressively and by his/her fruit they are known to be who they profess to believe before men. (cf. Matt 6:17,20; James 2:17-26).
simul iustus et peccator
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Re: Lordship Salvation Why So Controversial?
[Re: JesusFan]
#55912
Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:28 PM
Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:28 PM
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Tom
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JesusFan I encourage you to read the article by William Webster. If as you say Lordship salvation is not really teaching what you are advocating for here! . There is a problem, mainly because not only is this William Webster's understanding, it is also the understanding of most of the Reformed community. It also involves some very essential issues when it comes to soteriology and we can't afford to be wrong on this one. I have read the arguements of some of the ant-Lordship Salvationists and noticed they name names such as RC Sproul, John Murray, A.W. Pink, as they put it Their doctrines of salvation are hardly distinguishable! The Roman Catholic Church pointed to James 2:14-26 and deemed it “the Achilles heel of the reformation.” Interestingly, it is regarded as the same by Lordship Salvationists in reference to Free Grace! Yet in light of all of this, the Apostle Paul has said, “For there must be also heresies among you, that they who are approved may be made manifest among you” (1 Cor. 11:19). From: https://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Doctrines/Lordship%20Salvation/macarthur.htmPilgrim, am I overstating my case? Tom
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Re: Lordship Salvation Why So Controversial?
[Re: Tom]
#55916
Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:31 AM
Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:31 AM
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Pilgrim

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I don't know exactly who these people are, but it appears that some (after doing a quick search online) are semi-Pelagian Dispensationalists. Reading through the article you linked to above, it certainly appears that Sandemanianism is being advocated, aka: Easy Believism, for according to the author, the faith that saves is one that simply "assents" to the Gospel... The author openly rejects any idea of "fiducia", i.e., faith consists in a full participation of a person's mind, affections and will of not only the Gospel but with Christ personally. Many times in the Scriptures what the author calls "simple faith" is exposed as a false, empty faith (cf. Jh 2:23-25; Matt 7:13-27; Jam 2:20-26). One of the by-words often uttered in opposition to the Roman Catholic of salvation; faith+works=justification and in rebuttal to the RC's claim that sola fide allowed one to continue in sin was "man is saved by faith alone, but not by a faith that is alone." Works do not and cannot justify, whether alone or intermixed with faith. But a true living faith justifies AND it also sanctifies. As James makes clear, works "justify" ones faith, i.e., works (obedience to God's laws, precepts, commands, etc.) evidence one's faith as being genuine saving faith. Again, I don't know a whole lot about those who are opposed to the doctrine if faith as taught in Scripture and embraced throughout history by the true Church and its members, but there are also groups who advocate "hyper Grace", which is a form of antinomianism. One individual mentioned in the article as opposing "Lordship Salvation" is Zane Hodges. Mr. Hodges is no stranger to many as being an adamant enemy of the doctrines of grace. And, although I would not give full approval of what the author(s) of the following article believe, it surely reveals some of the serious heresies Zane Hodges teaches: The Unusual and Troubling Teachings of Zane Hodges.
simul iustus et peccator
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Re: Lordship Salvation Why So Controversial?
[Re: JesusFan]
#55937
Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:53 PM
Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:53 PM
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Posts: 13,911 NH, USA
Pilgrim

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I think that the biggest concern with some of us in regards to Lordship Salvation is that it is mixing/blending together Justification and Sanctification, so one can be unsure of their real spiritual state, as in enough good works and enoug having jesus over my life etc. Do you think that William Webster, in his article, is guilty of "mixing/blending together Justification and Sanctification"? Please provide quotes where you see this in his article. Anyone who concerns themselves whether they have "enough good works and enough having Jesus over my life" is at best seriously confused about the two doctrines, and most notably justification. What is most dominant in our present time is a total corruption of orthodoxy in both doctrine and life. Hundreds of thousands of people are still unregenerate but believe they are saved because some so-called pastor or evangelist told them they were saved. Or, they followed a series of "steps" written on the back of some tract, e.g., "The Four Spiritual Laws". Sandemanianism, aka: Easy Believism is surely the most insidious of the common heresies being promoted today.
simul iustus et peccator
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