|

|
|
|
Posts: 147
Joined: August 2021
|
|
|
|
Forums31
Topics8,364
Posts56,564
Members992
| |
Most Online4,295 May 22nd, 2026
|
|
|
#13741
Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:51 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615
Needs to get a Life
|
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615 |
Brian had sent me a very kind e-mail and I hope the answer to this will assist in resolving some issues. Brian's Question: I have been following the posts on the Household Baptism thread, but have become very confused at one point, and thought you might be able to guide me. The problem is that, as children were circumcised as the sign of inclusion in the covenant, so this is given as the reason for their baptism, as signifying inclusion in the covenant. Richard makes the point that as spouses, servants etc. were included in circumcision, so, likewise they should receive baptism. This I find difficult, and note from your reply to Susan that you do not accept it. My problem is, how does one refute this idea, from scripture, without also destroying the very argument used for the inclusion of children? Any guidance you can eventually give me would be much appreciated.
Yours in Him, Brian The covenant is to Abraham and his seed, as you know from the OT (Gen 17:7, etc.) as it is traced to the NT (Gal 3:16, etc.). Thus, the covenant is to TWO groups and in TWO different administrations: TWO kinds of people: - 1. Abraham (an Adult)
- 2. His Seed (Children)
TWO kinds of administration: - 1. In the covenant that God prescribed, Abraham had to believe and it was accounted to him for righteousness. This has not changed in the NT, except it has been made clearer...in Christ.
- 2. In the covenant that God prescribed, Abraham was to be faithful and to circumcise his children dependent on loyalty to the covenant that God had established and not dependent on his children's present or future loyalty to the eternal covenant with God (remember Moses' case when he failed to obey this...).
In addition, we ought to be careful about reading too much into the text of 1 Cor 7:14. IMHO, Richard has failed to see the TWO fold administration above and thus he is forced now to apply the hermeneutic of the children to an adult (Richard I mean nothing personally against you here--only the consistency of your argument). This of course is in error as so many NT passages reveal that an adult must (1) profess Christ (2) repent, etc to be baptized....This was also true in Abraham's case! It is evident that the Gospel penetrates the world so that in a given family one spouse becomes a Christian but not the other. Then the believing spouse by conduct, word, and prayer may win his or her partner for Christ. Because of Christ’s power, the influence of a believer is often stronger than the influence of an unbeliever. Calvin states, “For the godliness of the one does more to ‘sanctify’ the marriage than the ungodliness of the other to make it unclean.” Paul is not saying that an unbelieving husband or wife has been made morally holy through his or her Christian spouse. No, man is unable to sanctify or to save a fellow human being. What the apostle is saying is that an unbelieving spouse who lives intimately with a Christian marriage partner experiences the influence of holiness. To be sanctified means that a person is influenced by the claims/power of Christ. The converse is equally true: anyone who is not sanctified is influenced by the claims of a world that is opposed to Christ. A study of the Scriptures reveals that the Greek word to sanctify has at least four different meanings. In general it signifies, - 1. to set things aside for sacred functions (e.g., items relating to worship at the tabernacle [Exod. 29:37, 44]).
- 2. to consecrate people by either baptism (I Cor. 6:11), a Christian marriage (I Cor. 7:14), or atonement for sin (Heb. 9:13).
- 3. third, to reverence people, names, or things (I Peter 3:15).
- 4. last, to purity someone from evil.
The second meaning of the verb to sanctify applies to the verse at hand. The believing husband or wife sanctified the unbelieving spouse much as the temple sanctified the gold connected with it, or the altar the gift laid upon it (Matt. 23:17-19). The object was not holy in itself but was holy by association. Paul is not saying that the Gentile spouse has a personal relationship with Christ, for then he or she would no longer be called an unbeliever. Nonetheless, this person’s conduct is affected by that of the Christian partner. He or she agrees to live with a Christian in whom God’s Spirit resides, fulfills the obligations that stem from the institution of marriage (Gen. 2:24), and keeps the marriage intact in obedience to Jesus’ command (Matt. 19:6). Both spouses live in a sanctified environment, for the home is consecrated by the reading and application of God’s Word and by prayer. Please read S. Kistemaker's commentary on 1 Cor for more. Lord willing I'll be back in a few weeks....Back to work...
Reformed and Always Reforming,
|
|
|
|
|
Entire Thread
|
Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:02 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:54 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:00 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:20 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Fri Apr 16, 2004 3:27 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:01 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:21 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:44 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 2:21 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Tom
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 2:39 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:26 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:43 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:34 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 12:37 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 3:45 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Pilgrim
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:16 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:30 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
MarieP
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 5:20 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:40 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 4:56 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 5:13 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:20 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:15 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Pilgrim
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:22 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:40 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:52 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Tom
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 8:58 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Wes
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:03 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:40 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Sun Apr 18, 2004 1:24 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:39 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:33 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:33 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:28 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:04 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Tom
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 8:42 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:23 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Tom
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 10:06 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 10:23 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
grace2U
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:40 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 1:00 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
grace2U
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 2:32 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:49 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
grace2U
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:17 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:45 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:12 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 11:57 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
grace2U
|
Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:11 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:19 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:36 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
grace2U
|
Tue Apr 20, 2004 4:09 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Wed Apr 21, 2004 3:20 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:08 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:43 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:06 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:04 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:19 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Tue Apr 27, 2004 4:01 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Tue Apr 27, 2004 5:37 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Tom
|
Mon May 17, 2004 7:44 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Mon May 17, 2004 2:19 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Mon May 17, 2004 2:47 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Mon May 17, 2004 8:51 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Mon May 17, 2004 9:40 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Mon May 17, 2004 10:12 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Mon May 17, 2004 2:36 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Tom
|
Mon May 17, 2004 6:42 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Mon May 17, 2004 7:19 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Pilgrim
|
Mon May 17, 2004 2:48 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Mon May 17, 2004 3:39 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Tom
|
Mon May 17, 2004 6:55 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
MarieP
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:53 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:20 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:19 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Tom
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 3:22 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Pilgrim
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 3:41 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Tom
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 3:51 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:44 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Tom
|
Tue Apr 20, 2004 4:59 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:02 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Tom
|
Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:36 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Pilgrim
|
Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:51 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Tom
|
Wed Apr 21, 2004 4:33 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
grace2U
|
Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:46 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Wed Apr 21, 2004 3:17 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
grace2U
|
Wed Apr 21, 2004 4:09 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:25 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:34 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Tom
|
Wed Apr 21, 2004 4:22 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Tue Apr 20, 2004 1:00 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Tue Apr 20, 2004 1:14 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Wes
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 3:47 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 7:05 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
grace2U
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 9:09 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:33 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
grace2U
|
Sun Apr 18, 2004 6:03 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Sun Apr 18, 2004 11:17 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Wes
|
Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:48 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
J_Edwards
|
Sun Apr 18, 2004 6:42 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
grace2U
|
Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:29 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:01 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:35 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 11:43 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
grace2U
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:02 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:29 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
grace2U
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 1:51 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Wes
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 10:35 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 11:50 AM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Pilgrim
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:26 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 1:33 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Pilgrim
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 3:35 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:42 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Pilgrim
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:11 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:37 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Tom
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 8:05 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Wes
|
Sat Apr 17, 2004 10:51 PM
|
Re: Household Baptisms
|
Anonymous
|
Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:06 AM
|
Maybe this will Help
|
J_Edwards
|
Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:51 PM
|
Re: Maybe this will Help
|
Wes
|
Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:47 AM
|
|
|
|
0 members (),
98
guests, and
14
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
|
31
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|