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Adopted said:
It is my present belief that to deny an infused corruption of our soul does not deny the righteousness of Christ. Men, even Adam in the garden before the fall, have never had true righteousness without the covering of God's justification. This is the very reason that after the sin of Adam, our first parents reallized that they were naked. What happened in the garden was not the destruction of Adam's will and nature nor the nature of his children, but a change in his status, in God's eyes, from being on probation, to his expulsion from the garden to a prison on death row (our present world).
Denny,

1) An "infused" corruption means to 'add to that which is already existent'. And even IF that were true, for arguments sake, the end result is the same... i.e., the nature is corrupted.

2) Could you please provide biblical support for your proposition that "Adam before the Fall... never had true righteousness without the covering of God's justification"? Such a proposal would mean that Adam possessed some measure of guilt, i.e., he had transgressed a law of God and needed an alien "righteousness". I find no such teaching, but perhaps I have missed it over the years?

3) Would you please exegete Genesis 2:16,17 for me please?


"And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."



4) The Garden of Eden was part of God's created world. It was simply a place made for Adam and Eve to dwell. Due to Adam's transgression the entire world was subjected to corruption (Gen 3:17b-18a; Rom 8:19-22) and metaphorically groans and awaits its redemption. There is no biblical warrant to bifurcate the Garden of Eden from the rest of the earth.

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Adopted said:
If Adam had received all of God's endowments of freedom why did he sin? It may be easily argued that Adam had "total depravity" before the fall. This proves that man has never had true freedom apart from the justifying righteousness and/or the authority of his Creator Alone.
1) Why did Adam sin? If you are able to answer that one, you will be the first in history to do so. The greater question is, How did Satan sin since he too was created perfect and additionally had no outside evil influence to entice him to rebel against God.

2) Again, it remains for you to show from Scripture that Adam needed an alien righteousness before the Fall.

3) No creature has freedom (autonomy) that is not under the direct authority of God, Who is the blessed Creator of all. Surely, I need not supply the plethora of biblical passages that show this to be incontrovertibly true.

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Adopted asks:
Who or what religion has convinced you that we are totally depraved? It is my assertion, by my present understanding that the Scripture teaches we are not totally depraved but totally incabable of justifying ourselves with an inherant deified righteousness and never have been. This absolutely includes Adam before the fall.
No one nor any religion convinced me that I was totally depraved. a) On the intellectual perspective, it was from my own private reading of the Scriptures that I came to know the truth about not only the depravity of nature of the entire human race, but also b) through the convicting work of the Holy Spirit speaking to my mind, heart and soul in the Scriptures read.

The onus is upon you now to show from Scripture that all the confessions, creeds and catechisms of all the Reformational churches are universally wrong in their understanding of the doctrine of both Original Sin and the doctrine of Total Depravity. I wish you well in your attempt. If you feel incapable of doing so yet feel someone else has succeeded in refuting these things, could you please provide a link to a source?

In His grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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