waronthesaints quoted Luther saying,<br><br><blockquote><font class="big">Philosophy and religion both discard at once the very thought of free will;", so it is not our natural free will that comes unto Christ, but that will bestowed to us by God that has a God-given right to choose God and receive eternal life by the grace of God fulfilling His requirement, for this is what our Lord and Savior has provided.</blockquote> </font mu=big>C. H. Spurgeon said:<br><blockquote><font class="big">Philosophy and religion both discard at once the very thought of free-will. And I will go as far as Martin Luther in that strong assertion of his where he says, "If any man doth ascribe aught of salvation, even the very least, to the free-will of man, he knoweth nothing of grace, and he hath not learnt of Jesus Christ aright." It may seem a harsh sentiment, but he who in his soul believes that man does of his own free-will turn to God cannot have been taught of God; for that is one of the first principles taught us when God begins with us, that we have neither will nor power, but that He gives both, that He is "ALPHA AND OMEGA" in the salvation of His people.</blockquote> </font mu=big>Apparently, waronthesaints you are a little off track for even Spurgeon understood Luther different that you have!<br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"] Even though you may not understand this, let me share it with you, that I have found in my spiritual walk, that in my life in Christ, if I were to have this system set up in me seperate from where my free-will in agreement with God's will was so degraded under calvinism, one-wayness, I would not have a communion with God in relationship building, [color:red]and would likely walk away in time</font color=red> because I would be constantly told under such a system that it was never my choice to begin with, with little or no give and take balance.</font><hr></blockquote><p> Well, since you would [color:red]walk away</font color=red> this reveals who the sovereign of your faith is--yourself and not God. God's elect will never fully and completely walk away. They may wonder and graze in different pastures and the Lord may even have to take them to glory in an expedient matter (which of course He knew before hand), but they will NEVER "fully" wonder or walk away for God is the Sovereign of their salvation and He will not allow such--at least so says the Gospel-John 17.<br><br>Another problem your posts proves, as Pilgrim already pointed out, is your emotional response being held in higher authority than the Scriptures themselves!!! i.e. you would walk away if Calvinism is the truth, which proves you do not understand the Sovereignty of God, but at least your depravity is consistent....What you do not understand is that Calvinism does not say you do not have a will. No where does it say this! What it says is that it is not as free as you would have it to be. Not even God’s will is totally free—God cannot not sin, cannot be unholy, et.al. God's will is always consistent with His nature....<br><br>A person when regenerated by the Holy Spirit CHOSES Christ. Prior to this they are dead and DEAD men cannot chose for they are dead…thus a rebirth MUST transpire prior to any choice for God. The re-birth though is filled with such wonder and amazement, so joyous, and triumphant, so full of mercy and grace, that when one sees God for the first time he will necessarily irresistibly choose Christ. As a baby desires his mother so does the new born babe of the Holy Spirit desire his Father.<br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"] Ultimately the error always of calvinism is not seeing the grace in the garden which came first…. </font><hr></blockquote><p> Yes, GRACE did come FIRST and that is the POINT of Calvinism that you just admitted to. Grace came first and then Adam choose!!! Calvinism does not deny this, but rather embraces it. Adam was made alive and then he chose…for before this he was hiding in fear of God and not desiring to approach Him because of his sin (he was even willing to blame God for his own sin--instant depravity--the woman YOU GAVE ME made me do it....)…..God sought Adam out FIRST, not Adam God. Thanks for making the point Carlos, and more importantly the Lord, was urging you to see!

Reformed and Always Reforming,