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#17615
Sat Sep 25, 2004 2:42 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 969
Old Hand
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Old Hand
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 969 |
catholicsoldier said: Michael
Whatever others may say, you have thoroughly and vigorously defended your newfound belief. And it is evident by the exhaustive research you've completed, that your change was well thought out, sure and deliberate. Though I disagree with Arminianism and believe its natural conclusion to be along the lines of the Palagean heresies (i.e. that man is morally neutral and can equally choose good or evil), I admire your stout and informed defense.
Life is hard. God is good. Heaven is sure.
catholicsoldier <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/takethat.gif" alt="" /> Have you read your Catechism lately MJM? 405 Although it is proper to each individual,295 original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam's descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ's grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle. 406 The Church's teaching on the transmission of original sin was articulated more precisely in the fifth century, especially under the impulse of St. Augustine's reflections against Pelagianism, and in the sixteenth century, in opposition to the Protestant Reformation. Pelagius held that man could, by the natural power of free will and without the necessary help of God's grace, lead a morally good life; he thus reduced the influence of Adam's fault to bad example. The first Protestant reformers, on the contrary, taught that original sin has radically perverted man and destroyed his freedom; they identified the sin inherited by each man with the tendency to evil (concupiscentia), which would be insurmountable. The Church pronounced on the meaning of the data of Revelation on original sin especially at the second Council of Orange (529)296 and at the Council of Trent (1546).297 A hard battle. . . 407 The doctrine of original sin, closely connected with that of redemption by Christ, provides lucid discernment of man's situation and activity in the world. By our first parents' sin, the devil has acquired a certain domination over man, even though man remains free. Original sin entails "captivity under the power of him who thenceforth had the power of death, that is, the devil".298 Ignorance of the fact that man has a wounded nature inclined to evil gives rise to serious errors in the areas of education, politics, social action299 and morals. Catechism of the Catholic ChurchSeems to me that the Roman Catholic Church is just as Arminian as MJM So I guess that the magesterium was wrong on this? Looks like their not infallible. Oooops they did it again <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Peter
If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
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Entire Thread
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MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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MarieP
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Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:20 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:01 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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J_Edwards
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Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:45 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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fredman
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Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:25 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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J_Edwards
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Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:47 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Pilgrim
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Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:07 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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J_Edwards
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Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:21 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Pilgrim
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Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:37 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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J_Edwards
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Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:40 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Pilgrim
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Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:28 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:58 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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J_Edwards
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Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:05 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Sat Sep 25, 2004 1:57 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Peter
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Sat Sep 25, 2004 6:42 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:10 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Oct 01, 2004 5:23 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:07 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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fredman
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Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:36 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:25 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Tom
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Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:51 PM
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:02 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Tom
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Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:37 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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J_Edwards
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Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:17 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Tom
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Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:54 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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J_Edwards
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Sun Oct 31, 2004 5:59 PM
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:21 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:37 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:57 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:02 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:47 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 30, 2004 5:24 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Tom
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Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:38 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:06 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:29 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 31, 2004 8:38 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Pilgrim
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Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:17 PM
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fredman
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Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:38 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:29 AM
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Anonymous
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Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:44 PM
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Anonymous
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Tue Nov 30, 2004 1:04 AM
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:23 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:48 PM
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:27 PM
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:41 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:11 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:22 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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fredman
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Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:09 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:14 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:37 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:03 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:16 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Tom
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Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:01 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:24 PM
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:43 PM
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:38 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:07 PM
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fredman
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:02 PM
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fredman
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:08 PM
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:14 PM
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fredman
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:39 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:52 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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fredman
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 5:19 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:06 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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MarieP
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Thu Dec 09, 2004 1:53 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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emtully
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Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:55 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:42 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:51 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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J_Edwards
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Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:13 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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fredman
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Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:32 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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MarieP
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Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:59 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Henry
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Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:01 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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MarieP
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Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:09 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Henry
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Fri Sep 24, 2004 1:48 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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MarieP
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Fri Sep 24, 2004 2:33 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:46 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:51 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Pilgrim
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Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:11 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:18 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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J_Edwards
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Thu Sep 23, 2004 12:59 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:49 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:37 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Tom
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Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:06 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:05 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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fredman
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Thu Sep 23, 2004 2:53 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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MarieP
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Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:44 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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janean
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Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:36 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:17 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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MarieP
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Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:24 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:02 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Calvinator
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Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:33 PM
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