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I'd like to add to Fred's comments with text from Boettner's "Objections Answered", from the section on God not being the author of sin: God’s relation to sin is admirably illustrated in the following paragraph which we shall take the liberty of quoting from W. D. Smith’s little book, What is Calvinism?
Suppose to yourself a neighbor who keeps a distillery or dram shop, which is a nuisance to all around — neighbors collecting, drinking, and fighting on the Sabbath, with consequent misery and distress in families, etc. Suppose, further, that I am endowed with a certain foreknowledge, and can see, with absolute certainty, a chain of events, in connection with a plan of operations which I have in view, for the good of that neighborhood. I see that by preaching there, I will be made the instrument of the conversion, and consequent reformation, of the owner of the distillery, and I therefore determine to go. Now, in so doing, I positively decree the reformation of the man; that is I determine to do what renders his reformation certain and I fulfill my decree by positive agency. But, in looking a little further in the chain of events, I discover, with the same absolute certainty, that his drunken customers will be filled with wrath, and much sin will be committed, in venting their malice upon him and me. They will not only curse and blaspheme God and religion, but they will even burn his house, and attempt to burn mine. Now, you perceive that this evil, which enters into my plan, is not chargeable upon me at all, though I am the author of the plan which in its operations, I know will produce it. Hence, it is plain, that any intelligent being may set on foot a plan, and carry it out, in which he knows, with absolute certainty, that evil will enter, and yet he is not the author of the evil, or chargeable with it in any way . . . In looking a little further in the chain of events, I discover, that if they be permitted they will take his life; and, I see, moreover, that if his life be spared, he will now be as notorious for good as he was for evil, and will prove a rich blessing to the neighborhood and to society Therefore, upon the whole plan, I determine to act; and, in so doing, I positively decree the reformation of that man, and the consequent good; and I permissively decree the wicked actions of the others; yet, it is very plain, that I am not in any way, chargeable for their sins. Now, in one or the other of these ways, God ‘has fore-ordained whatsoever comes to pass’ (P. 33-35).
And Charles Hodge says in this connection:
A righteous judge, in pronouncing sentence on a criminal, may be sure that he will cause wicked and bitter feelings in the criminal’s mind, or in the hearts of his friends, and yet the judge be guiltless. A father, in excluding a reprobate son from his family, may see that the inevitable consequences of such exclusion will be his greater wickedness, and yet the father may do right. It is the certain consequence of God’s leaving the fallen angels and the finally impenitent to themselves, that they will continue in sin, and yet the holiness of God remain untarnished. The Bible clearly teaches that God judicially abandons men to their sins, giving them up to a reprobate mind, and He therein is most just and holy. It is not true, therefore, that an agent is responsible for all the certain consequences of his acts. It may be, and doubtless is, infinitely wise and just in God to permit the occurrence of sin, and to adopt a plan of which sin is a certain consequence or element; yet, as He neither causes sin, nor tempts men to its commission, He is neither its author nor approver.
True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
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MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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MarieP
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Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:20 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:01 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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J_Edwards
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Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:45 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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fredman
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Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:25 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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J_Edwards
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Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:47 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Pilgrim
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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J_Edwards
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Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:21 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Pilgrim
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Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:37 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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J_Edwards
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Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:40 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Pilgrim
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Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:28 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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J_Edwards
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Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:05 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Sat Sep 25, 2004 1:57 PM
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Peter
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Anonymous
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Oct 01, 2004 5:23 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:07 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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fredman
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Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:36 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:25 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Tom
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Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:51 PM
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:02 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Tom
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Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:37 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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J_Edwards
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Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:17 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Tom
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Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:54 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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J_Edwards
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Sun Oct 31, 2004 5:59 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:21 AM
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:37 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 30, 2004 8:57 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:02 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:47 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 30, 2004 5:24 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Tom
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Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:38 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:06 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 31, 2004 8:38 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Pilgrim
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Sun Oct 31, 2004 9:17 PM
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fredman
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Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:38 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:23 AM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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fredman
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:16 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Tom
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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fredman
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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fredman
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:08 PM
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:14 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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fredman
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:39 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:52 PM
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fredman
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 5:19 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:06 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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MarieP
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Thu Dec 09, 2004 1:53 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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emtully
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Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:55 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:42 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:51 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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J_Edwards
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Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:13 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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fredman
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Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:32 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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MarieP
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Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:59 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Henry
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Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:01 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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MarieP
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Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:09 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Henry
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Fri Sep 24, 2004 1:48 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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MarieP
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Fri Sep 24, 2004 2:33 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:46 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:51 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Pilgrim
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Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:11 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:18 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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J_Edwards
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Thu Sep 23, 2004 12:59 AM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:49 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:37 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Tom
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Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:06 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:05 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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fredman
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Thu Sep 23, 2004 2:53 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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MarieP
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Tue Sep 21, 2004 1:44 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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janean
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Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:36 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:17 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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MarieP
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Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:24 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:02 PM
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Re: MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible
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Calvinator
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Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:33 PM
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