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#18324
Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:43 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 969
Old Hand
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OP
Old Hand
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 969 |
No as a reformed baptist I do not believe in baptismal regeneration Neither as you define it, nor as the LCMS defines it. Baptismal Regeneration Q. You teach, as did Martin Luther, that man is justified by grace alone, through faith alone. Yet I also read your position on baptism and it seems to me that you also teach baptismal regeneration. You clearly state that a person (infant) comes into the blessings of grace (salvation) through their baptism. How can this be if the scripture teaches that faith is the means of apprehending salvation? I may simply be misunderstanding what you are saying in the section on baptism, I hope I am. If not, then I must insist that there would then be no difference between the LCMS and the Roman Church on its view of justification and salvation. Please help me understand where I am misunderstanding you. A. Lutherans believe that the Bible teaches that a person is saved by God's grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ. Baptism, we believe, is one of the miraculous means of grace (together with God's written and spoken Word) through which God creates and/or strengthens the gift of faith in a person's heart (see Matt. 28:18-20; Act. 2:38; John 3:5-7; Act. 22:16; 1 Peter 3:21; Titus 3:5-6; Gal. 3:26-27; Rom. 6:1-4; Col. 2:11-12; 1 Cor. 12:13). Although we do not claim to understand how this happens or how it is possible, we believe (because of what the Bible says about baptism) that when an infant is baptized God creates faith in the heart of that infant. This faith cannot yet, of course, be expressed or articulated, yet it is real and present all the same (see e.g., 1 Peter 2:21; Acts 2:38-39; Titus 3:5-6; Matt. 18:6; Luke 1:15; 2 Tim. 3:15; Gal. 3:26-27; Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:11-12; 1 Cor. 12:13). This faith needs to be fed and nurtured by God's Word (Matt. 28:18-20), or it will die. Those who have been baptized, but who no longer believe, will not be saved. (By the same token, those who truly believe and yet have not had opportunity to be baptized [like, for example, the thief on the cross] will be saved.) LCMS Baptismal RegenerationNor WELS or the ELS But hold to that what has been taught long ago that regeneration is the effectual application of Christ's redemption applied to us by the Holy Spirit. Doctrine of Regeneration Bill AscolSee also: Blessings of Grace section 4 J.L DaggRegeneration and Conversion by James P. BoyceRegeneration-outline by Derek Gentle
Peter
If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
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Entire Thread
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Wicked Baptists
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Peter
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Sat Oct 09, 2004 6:20 PM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:55 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Pilgrim
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 3:12 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 3:48 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Pilgrim
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:34 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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gnarley
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:11 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:11 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Pilgrim
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 3:25 PM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:28 PM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Pilgrim
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 7:07 PM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Tom
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:18 PM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:22 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:01 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:04 PM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:30 PM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:35 PM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Peter
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:39 PM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 6:12 PM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:38 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:44 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:49 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 12, 2004 1:49 PM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Pilgrim
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Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:23 PM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:23 PM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 12, 2004 8:10 PM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Pilgrim
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Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:21 PM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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MHeath
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Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:19 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Pilgrim
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Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:56 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:34 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Pilgrim
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Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:47 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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MHeath
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Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:36 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Pilgrim
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Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:21 PM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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MHeath
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Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:40 PM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Pilgrim
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Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:46 PM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:40 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Pilgrim
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Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:09 PM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:40 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:45 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:43 PM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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BibleRon
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Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:47 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:58 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Pilgrim
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Mon Oct 11, 2004 3:57 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Mon Oct 11, 2004 9:02 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Peter
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Mon Oct 11, 2004 9:16 PM
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Baptists and the 1789 Confession
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timmopussycat
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:56 PM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Peter
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Mon Oct 11, 2004 3:25 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Peter
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Sun Oct 10, 2004 7:06 PM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Peter
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Thu Oct 14, 2004 4:38 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:02 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:11 AM
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No.
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TheClingingVine
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Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:09 PM
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Re: No.
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Anonymous
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Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:53 PM
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I'm not tying regeneration to anything.
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TheClingingVine
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Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:20 PM
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Re: I'm not tying regeneration to anything.
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Anonymous
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Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:35 AM
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Re: I'm not tying regeneration to anything.
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TheClingingVine
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Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:11 AM
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Re: I'm not tying regeneration to anything.
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Pilgrim
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Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:38 AM
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[admiringly] Very well expressed, Pilgrim.
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TheClingingVine
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Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:41 AM
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Re: I'm not tying regeneration to anything.
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Anonymous
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Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:16 AM
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Re: I'm not tying regeneration to anything.
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Henry
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Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:22 PM
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Re: I'm not tying regeneration to anything.
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 12:33 AM
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Re: I'm not tying regeneration to anything.
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Henry
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 1:32 AM
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Re: I'm not tying regeneration to anything.
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 3:33 AM
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Re: I'm not tying regeneration to anything.
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Henry
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 12:31 PM
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Re: I'm not tying regeneration to anything.
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 2:02 PM
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That's all from me, folks.
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Henry
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 8:35 PM
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Re: That's all from me, folks.
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:48 AM
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Re: That's all from me, folks.
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:52 PM
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Re: That's all from me, folks.
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:51 AM
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Re: I'm not tying regeneration to anything.
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Peter
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 9:28 PM
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Re: I'm not tying regeneration to anything.
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:28 AM
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Re: I'm not tying regeneration to anything.
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:30 AM
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Re: I'm not tying regeneration to anything.
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Pilgrim
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 3:38 AM
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Re: I'm not tying regeneration to anything.
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 3:56 AM
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Re: I'm not tying regeneration to anything.
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Pilgrim
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:13 AM
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Re: I'm not tying regeneration to anything.
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:35 AM
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Re: I'm not tying regeneration to anything.
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Pilgrim
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:56 PM
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Re: I'm not tying regeneration to anything.
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:32 AM
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Re: help me clear my thoughts
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janean
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:44 AM
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Re: help me clear my thoughts
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Pilgrim
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:49 PM
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Re: I'm not tying regeneration to anything.
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Anonymous
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Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:24 AM
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Regeneration's an event, not a process.
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TheClingingVine
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Fri Oct 15, 2004 9:46 AM
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Re: Regeneration's an event, not a process.
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Anonymous
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Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:13 AM
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I don't think "contrition" and "repentance" are...
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TheClingingVine
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Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:00 PM
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Re: I don't think "contrition" and "repentance" are...
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Anonymous
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Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:46 PM
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Didn't you essentially agree with me?
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TheClingingVine
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Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:24 PM
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Re: No.
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Anonymous
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Thu Oct 14, 2004 5:26 PM
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I prefer to not get into debates on baptism.
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TheClingingVine
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Thu Oct 14, 2004 7:24 PM
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Re: I prefer to not get into debates on baptism.
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Anonymous
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Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:09 PM
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Re: I prefer to not get into debates on baptism.
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Tom
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Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:46 PM
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Re: I prefer to not get into debates on baptism.
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Anonymous
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Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:54 PM
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Re: I prefer to not get into debates on baptism.
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Tom
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Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:20 AM
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[shudder] Eschatology! There's a sticky wicket.
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TheClingingVine
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Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:30 PM
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Re: No.
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:13 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Peter
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 8:43 PM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:08 AM
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Re: Wicked Baptists
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Peter
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Sat Oct 16, 2004 8:03 PM
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