Dear Paul, Pilgrim, Semper, and others who replied to me:


I’ve been staying away from reading/replying on this thread (that I started) as it is hard for the part of me that prefers being ‘comfortable’ over feeling at times affronted, odd-one out, misunderstood, etc.

I do not wish to ignore your responses nor the time you’ve invested...I took a break.

This said, not to exclude valuable scripture verses, etc. and Trinitarian support presented.

Concerning ‘comfortable,’ which is the opposite of what is important... I want to say this.

To Paul’s question: “Is it possible that you yourself are deceived, etc” ABSOLUTELY. Do I, have I asked this? Yes! This question and a multitude of others, are on my mind, and have been. Deceived from without... Deceived from WITHIN! And that is why I question assumptions.

What I did wrong... I posted a ‘Proclamation.’ (And a contrary one at that... In a contrary way... which I wasn’t considering.) It shouldn’t have even been a post... it was foggy brewing angst.

The very things I feel Convicted to bring up to here are what’s NOT said... For that reason alone... I’m only finishing and sticking to THIS one here “Trinity.”

Regarding the Trinity doctrine... Where I agreed with Pilgrim... “I believe what you believe” (and at that time) it is more that I agree with what he posted (the Way I HEAR it) Up Until ‘3 Persons.’ GOD IS ONE... Yes, He’s One. I don’t HEAR that the Same way, if you say ‘3 persons.’ I do not. I might even read the Nicean Creed (but I don’t want to) and not READ it the same way as you do.

Recently, I have met others at least a few months ahead of me... sifting through the same PARADOX “Not 3 Gods... but a (group) that equals 1”... “somehow.” SUCH A CONSTRUCT... utterly destroys what is meant by ‘KNOWING’ Who God Really IS. Thus Salvation is a DELUSION... This Uncomfortable and Insulting statement was made to me... And I had to consider if my faith/belief/construct could possibly be wrong... If not, Why not... OR if THEY were wrong. (By the way, I am not ‘One-ness’ JW, nor Pentecostal, Gnostic, Mormon) There is only One Truth. IF you don’t KNOW that Jesus Christ IS GOD. Period. The very same as ‘I AM.’ THIS IS WHY I POSTED... Why does TRADITION insist I split God into 3 Persons (an UNBIBLICAL description ‘persons’... then leave me with the impossible task to Pretend they are One?) This is NOT Scripture’s doing. This is Man’s. And there is a Long/dark history behind it... known as Babylon. Whatever you think of me... I don’t care. Because I don’t want that to be my focus. I have a lot to learn. I am being shown much wisdom, from others in the Church... (the one without walls)... and believe the Lord has led me to them... and I was searching for them for fellowship, which I crave. After much SOLA searching, frustration and prayer. An apologist on Scripture... I am NOT... (and neither are they... ‘theologians.’) I am trusting the Holy Spirit to answer ALL questions... through the Word... and the Word in others. Something you refer to and espouse ‘SOLA SCRIPTURE’... the difference being... this... Plus...” If sanctioned by Proper/Approved Traditional Consensus.” For any of us who pay attention to how wrong Tradition has been... It always ends up Leavened... just a little equals a lot... I take that as “Proceed with Prayer and Caution because only Jesus Christ can hunt out that leaven.” I’m not saying I believe there is no truth to be found in Organized Churches... but there is always leaven. The Word of God says so. It’s our duty to submit and listen... find and eat that bread ourselves... seek fellowship, but not rely solely on others to spoon-feed us their bread.... I believe leaven serves a purpose then... to teach us THAT lesson. To trust Jesus Christ entirely and wholly for our bread and salvation... wherever we are – in a Church with walls or not.

Who said here to me “God is not the author of confusion” ? Pilgrim? I can’t remember. (I am sorry.) That verse had tremendous impact... And though you think that I don’t or haven’t listened, and comments here have bounced off of me... that isn’t true. But at a certain point... as one just too ‘out there’ I kept away. Likely, I’ll rather read/lurk occasionally.

In scouring the internet reading articles, positions, etc. on the subject of the Trinity... I came across a great read.... (remembering God is not the author of confusion.) The author of the article is BI-Nitarian!... I didn’t expect to see that one added to the list. STILL the article I recommend. http://www.bethelcog.org/CG_TrinityNature.html

Upon looking at such an article, the history, the statements, the confusion, schisms... and the pagan philosophy, etc. And KNOWING there are at least a thousand ? articles like this one... HOW can one not wonder IF Knowing Who God Is... should not be left to the Holy Spirit in the Word?

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Here are some verses

John 1:14 - "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

Collosians 2:9 - "For in him dwelleth ALL the FULNESS of the GODHEAD BODILY"

Hebrews 5:5 – “So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

Hebrews 9:15 – “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

John 8:58 – “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am”

******“Son of God”... only because of his TEMPORAL humanity. He, Jesus, IS GOD.********

Isaiah 9:6 - "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name SHALL BE CALLED Wonderful, Counsellor, THE mighty GOD, The everlasting FATHER, The Prince of Peace."

John 8:27-28 - "They understood NOT that he spake to them of THE FATHER. Then said Jesus unto them, when ye have LIFTED UP THE SON OF MAN, then shall ye KNOW that I AM HE (Father)...".

John 14:3 – “And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the FATHER may be glorified IN THE SON.”

Jhn 14:7 - If ye HAD KNOWN ME, ye SHOULD HAVE KNOWN MY FATHER also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Jhn 14:8 - Philip saith unto him, Lord, SHEW US THE FATHER, and it sufficeth us.

Jhn 14:9 - Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and YET HAS THOU NOT KNOWN ME, Philip? he that HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; and HOW SAYEST THOU [then], SHEW US THE FATHER?

Jhn 14:13 - And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that THE FATHER MAY BE GLORIFIED IN THE SON.

I Corinthians 12:13 -- For by ONE SPIRIT are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink INTO ONE SPIRIT

Ephisians 4:4 “[There is] one body, and ONE SPIRIT, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;”

*********The following I received from a brother in Christ: *********

When we see "we" or "our" or "us" in the Bible translation, that by all means is NOT proof of the separation of persons! Here is an example verse:

John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE WILL COME unto him, and make OUR ABODE with him."
It is the translation of verses like this that introduce a lot of confusion, "WE WILL COME" suggests more than one person. BUT if you look at the original Hebrew, that entire phrase with 'WE' in it is Strong's 2064 - "erchomai". And that phrase is NOT necessarily plural, here's the definition:

a) to come into being, arise, come forth, show itself, find place or influence
b) be established, become known, to come (fall) into or unto
So “we" was inserted by the KJ translation. In Hebrew, It is not plural or singular. Who gave KJ the authority to put that 'we' in there? He was inspired by God? I don’t think so, of course he will add 'we' in there, since he was indoctrinated into this trinity.
ALSO, the “WITHs” require scrutiny... the Source and original language of (below)
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was ‘WITH’ God, and the Word was God.
WITH... Strong's 4314 = "pros"

1) to the advantage of
2) at, near, by
3) to, towards, with, with regard to
WITH... Thayer's Lexicon:

to, toward, denoting direction towards a thing, or position and state.
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Vs. Strong's 1722 "en"

1) in, by, with, etc.