If the Son is the same Person as the Father and the Holy Spirit, how can the Father have existed eternally, the Son existed eternally, and the Spirit existed eternally?

Also, to deny the Trinity is to make nonsense of the Atonement. How can one properly understand Jesus Christ satisfying the wrath of God the Father if they are not two distinct Persons (two Persons, NOT two Gods)?

Plus, consider the baptism of Jesus. How could the Father have spoken of the Son if the Father was the exact same Person as the Son? And if Jesus was the same Person as the Holy Spirit, please explain to me why Jesus said He was GOING to the Father and that He was SENDING the Spirit?

Similarly, how can Jesus speak of, in John 6, people coming to Jesus after haven been GIVEN to Him BY the Father? Plus, when you read Ephesians 1, you see how each Person of the Trinity works together in the salvation of God's elect.

Not to mention the problems a denial of the Trinity poses to Christ's prayers in the Garden of Gethsemane.

As Hank Hanegraaff once summed up, the Trinity is "one What and three Whos."


In James White's excellent book The Forgotten Trinity, he goes through numerous passages of Scripture defending and explaining the importance of the Trinity. I would highly recommend you read this.

In regards to the word "Trinity," the word "Bible" is not in Scripture either. So, please be consistent and, should you not wish to use the word Trinity, don't use the word Bible either.

Also, the early church, in spite of your denial of this, defended the full Deity and full humanity of Jesus Christ. In fact, the Creed that Pilgrim posted says the following:

Quote
we believe and profess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is both God and man. As God He was begotten of the substance of the Father before time; as man He was born in time of the substance of His mother. He is perfect God and He is perfect man, with a rational soul and human flesh. He is equal to the Father in His divinity but is inferior to the Father in His humanity. Although He is God and man, He is not two but one Christ...because He is one person.

The Nicene Creed says:

Quote
"We believe in one God, the Father almighty, creator of all things both visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the only-begotten born of the Father, that is of the substance of the Father; God from God, light from light, true God from true God; begotten, not created, consubstantial with the Father; through Him all things were made, those in heaven and those on the earth as well...And we believe in the Holy Spirit. As for those who say: ‘There was a time when He did not exist’ and ‘before He was begotten, He did not exist;’ and ‘He was made from nothing, or from another hypostasis or essence,’ alleging that the Son of God is mutable or subject to change - such persons the Catholic and apostolic church condemns.”

And lest you are put off by the word Catholic in these creeds, the term does not mean Roman Catholic but merely means "universal"...that which all Christians are united in believing.

It appears that you have gotten much false information about the doctrine of the Trinity. For example, Matthew 13:33 is not a text that anyone I know has ever used to defend the Trinity. The study of the Trinity, rather, incorporates whole passages and the whole of Scripture. The whole of Scripture points to one God in three Persons.

This article may be helpful. Also, please read the articles and/or books we've mentioned.

Another book, which I just started reading, and cannot put down, is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit: Relationships, Roles, and Relevance by Bruce Ware.

By the way, what church do you belong to? Perhaps we would better know where you are coming from.

True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin