Hey Carlos,<br>Okay, to begin with, you wrote,<br><br>"In fact, to teach your view of Election is to indeed "EXPLAIN AWAY" the scriputres, such a Ephe 1:3-14, Romans 8:28-9:23. See, The election is spoken as a according to God's purpose and Plan. You have to Ďread into the textí to come up with your position."<br><br>Negative. My view is based on harmonizing what is spoken in the scriptures; there is nothing in either Ephesians or Romans that contradicts what I believe. If you don't agree, you are more than welcome to show me where it does.<br><br><br>IRT:<br>"You said there are conditions to Godís Election. WHERE IN THE SCRIPTURE?"<br><br>Proverbs 3:34, James 4:6, 1 Peter 5:5-6 - Humility<br>Hebrews 3:7-8, Hebrews 3:15, Hebrews 4:7 - Hearing His voice and not hardening your heart<br>Matthew 18:3-4, Mark 10:15, Luke 18:17 - Humble yourself and become like a little child<br>Romans 11:20-23 - Not remaining in unbelief (note in 11:20 that they were broken off because of unbelief, not unbelieving because they were broken off)<br><br>It pretty much boils down to "How does a person react to God's voice. After God has broken their pride, do they humble themselves, hear His voice and obey? Or do they stop their ears from hearing the truth and harden their hearts to the point of unbelief?" You may say that it is God who hardens a person's heart, indeed. But it is also made plain in the scripture that men harden their hearts as well (Exodus 8:15, 8:32, 9:34, 1 Samuel 6:6, 2 Chronicles 36:13, Psalm 95:8, Proverbs 28:14, Jeremiah 17:23, Hebrews 3:8, 3:15, 4:7). It can then be seen that if a man hardens himself against God's words and does not receive them, but abides in unbelief, then God will harden that man's heart to the point that even physical evidence will not convince him (such as in the case of Pharaoh).<br><br>IRT:<br>"You canít get around Eph 1:3-14, nor Romans 8:28-9:23, and many other texts."<br><br>I don't need to "get around" them. My beliefs are in alignment with them. Indeed, there may be a few scriptures which at first glance may appear to pose a problem for me (but on closer examination, do not), but there is a much larger portion which is totally incompatible with Calvinist doctrine. If you think I am wrong, then don't explain away, but show how what you believe is not contradicted by this passage:<br><br>"Oh Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" (Matthew 23:37 and Luke 13:34)<br><br>Clearly, this passage is in direct conflict with the belief that people cannot resist God's will and calling. For why would they be desired by God unless they were elect? Yet they resisted God's will and stopped their ears from hearing the truth.<br><br>"But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear." (Zechariah 7:11)<br><br>So we see that while God did desire the people of Jerusalem to come to Him, they violated the condition for being elected.<br><br>IRT:<br>"Election precedes Belief. See Acts 13:48. Belief Does not precede Election, as we have been pointing out to you."<br><br>Already agreed. I have made it clear that I believe this more than once, that God's election according to His foreknowledge precedes our faith. I also agree that election is according to God's purpose and plan, but I believe that God's plan is based on what He foresees in people's hearts.<br><br><br>In Christ,<br>Josh<br>