<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Here is the rub! As I read the commentary on Hebrews 6 that is exactly the conclusion I came to about Calvinism. While it is known that Christ did secure the salvation of some, nobody would be assured of salvation because it would not be known if they were pre-selected or not. If, in the future, they ever backslide, they were never saved. That is Calvinism. What if they die before they come to the point of falling away? They would die thinking they were saved and never having fallen away, are cast into hell anyway. Therefore, all Calvinists live in the uncertainty that Christ did not die for them.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." If we are elect, we will bear the fruits of our election: We will repent, we will come to know the joy of Christ, we will grow in faith in Him, we will obey God out of love for Him. I have faith in my salvation because I have seen these fruits in me, even though my flesh wages war against me. But this faith is not my work, but the work of the Holy Spirit in me. I could not come to this faith on my own. The Arminian position says otherwise: That I can have faith on my own, apart from the work of the Spirit in me. How is this possible, if I am "dead in trespasses and sin"? If I have enough goodness in me to muster up faith, why not enough to muster up perfect obedience without Christ? In short, the fatal flaw of Arminianism is that it takes neither man's fallen nature nor the imputation of Adam's sin to us seriously enough. It expects that we have enough goodness to approach God, and also that we have power enough to resist God's will.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]By what ‘will’ did Abraham offer up his son, Isaac? Was his faith defective? Or Noah build the ark; Moses lead the children of Israel, David, Job, on and on.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Their faith was the work of the Holy Spirit in them. Their will was the work of the Holy Spirit in them.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Men have never lost the capacity to respond favorably to the WORD of God in faith. It is man’s nature that is fallen.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Man's nature is faithless in it's fallenness! We have no capacity to trust God without His intervention! We are born into this world utterly opposed to God and His Gospel.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]The atonement is indeed universal for all but the application of it is conditional on man’s response.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Then our salvation is dependent upon OUR WORK OF RESPONDING FAVORABLY TO THE GOSPEL. Responsibility for our salvation then rests with US, not with God. We may then boast in OUR OWN ABILITY to believe on the promises of God, rather than in God's mercy in Christ's dying for us while we were yet sinners.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]From a Calvinist view, how do I know I am pre-selected?</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Faith based on the evidence of the good fruits promised to the saved.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]What were the Hebrews in 6:6 in danger of falling away from?<br><br>Wes said they were falling away from the external church, but that does not answer to the rest of the verse IMO.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>I agree with Wes. I don't see what you don't think is addressed. In v. 8, we learn that the one who does not bring forth good fruit is burned up. Good fruit is the evidence of a saving faith, which is preceded by election. The one within the church who does not bring forth good fruit is in danger of being cast out of the church and given over to the power of Satan. Furthermore, we read in v. 9 that the the writer is "convinced of better things concerning [the Hebrews], and things that accompany salvation." In the following verses, we read that the Hebrews are to work diligently "to realize the full assurance of hope until the end"; that is, when we work diligently and obediently to God, we are assuring ourselves of the hope of salvation promised to us---so that we don't plague ourselves with the question, "Am I elect?" That's what it seems to me.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Is there a human side to the Calvinist view of Salvation?<br><br>I presume the answer to this is 'no', which leaves an apparent contradiction IMO.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>What's the contradiction? If nothing we can do saves us, but only what God does, then the Calvinist view is the most compatible with Scripture.

Last edited by CovenantInBlood; Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:00 PM.
Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.