My personal beliefs are that we do have a free will, but it is 1) apart from Christ, only free to choose damnation and 2) is only as free as God allows for it to be. I have no problem in saying I went to that movie on my own free will. It was what I wanted to do. <br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]What I wanted to ask though was if God so expertly saves and keeps the elect without any volition on their part, how did Adam fall in the first place? Are we to assume He can keep us any better, or was it something He allowed Adam to have that we are denied, like a free will?</font><hr></blockquote><p>One must keep in mind that the Garden of Eden was a perfect place and was free from the corruption of sin. And in a perfect world, man is free completely to do as he wants. And Adam was free to do so. But until Satan came along, the only thing Adam wanted to do was commune with God. And when Eve came, commune with God through the love of his wife and along side of her. Why is it such a hard thing to say that they had more freedom in the garden than we do, especially in light of verses like Genesis 3:17-19?<blockquote>[color:green]And to Adam he said,<br><br>"Because you have listened to the voice of your wife<br>and have eaten of the tree<br>of which I commanded you,<br>'You shall not eat of it,'<br>cursed is the ground because of you;<br>in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life; <br>thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you;<br>and you shall eat the plants of the field. <br>By the sweat of your face<br>you shall eat bread,<br>till you return to the ground,<br>for out of it you were taken;<br>for you are dust,<br>and to dust you shall return."</font color=green><br> Genesis 3:17-19 (ESV)</blockquote>I think that this passage shows that man LOST some control in the Garden.<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Which is not to imply that He needs our help, but only to say if that was His plan to have a group of people to serve Him that are without personal will or are so held in His power that their will is completely impotent, it would appear something went terrible wrong. Or at least He would not have taken this route to that end.</font><hr></blockquote><p>But something did go terribly wrong. Adam sinned. And for sin, there is always a punishment.<br><br>
