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A few months ago, a young lady was kidnapped from her college and held to ransom. Leigh's father paid the kidnappers R50 000, but she was never returned. In the end, the kidnappers deliberately decided to take her life by firing 3 gunshots into her body. So Calvinists would have us believe that this monstrous act was against God's preceptive will, but not his decretive will. God did not desire that Leigh should be murdered, but according to his eternal purpose, he foreordained it. God did not desire or want the kidnappers to murder Leigh, but it was his purpose that they should decide to murder Leigh.

(Fred) There is just way too much stuff to handle at once, so I will just deal with one aspect of your post. The Bible is clear that all men will die and the reason we die is due to our sin. Would you agree with that? The early chapters of Romans affirms this truth. Also, Hebrews 9:27 states that it is appointed unto men once to die, then the judgment. One nuance of Hebrews 9:27 is that men have an appointment with death and I believe God is the one who sets that appointment. Death is the inevitable outcome of all humanity, even Christians, except for those who are alive at the coming of the Lord. God has determined the deaths of every person who has ever and will live as he sees fit.

However, with the illustration you mention above, you would seem to disagree with that. I agree that Leigh being shot to death is a horrific crime, but her murder was an appointed means by which she was brought to her appointed meeting with death and judgment. My father suffered with the lingering, paralyzing effects of a massive stroke for nearly a month before he died that robbed him of his ability to move, talk, and communicate with his family. How was his death, according to your position, any less cruel? At least with Leigh, she was killed instantaneously. Was God not in control of those events in my father's life? It would seem from your belief system that God apparently was not and that if the biblical Calvinist view of God were true, then God is a torturous monster with regards to my father. However, our family saw the whole event as a faith building time that eventual brought my dad into the presence of his Lord at death.

Your position, by raising this illustration of the murdered girl seems to suggest that it is cruel of God to allow anyone to die at all. I guess you think the least amount of cruelity would be to let all people die peacefully in their sleep after they have concluded their lives with absolute joy and happiness with the absence of any trials.

I was particularly disturbed by the sheer lack of any meaningful exegesis your post contained. I have to confess that I did find your advocated position to be more philosophically driven by emotional considerations than built around the Bible. My wife and I are currently doing our daily Bible reading in Isaiah. Yesterday, we came across a rather disturbing prophecy made by Isaiah in chapter 13. God speaks through Isaiah against Babylon and states that he will bring destruction against their nation. In fact, God even states that he will bring "Cruel destruction" (13:9) and goes on to outline that cruel destruction by stating he will have women raped and little children dashed to pieces and any pregnant women will be eviscerated. Sounds to be graphic. Was God wrong to have moved with such judgment?

Fred

"Ah, sitting - the great leveler of men. From the mightest of pharaohs to the lowest of peasants, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" M. Burns