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#22641
Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:55 PM
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Joined: Apr 2001
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Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
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speratus said:Pilgrim writes, The Holy Spirit works in conjunction with the written Word of God. The Word has no inherent "power" to effect anything, in and of itself. It is a means of grace, much the same as faith is the means by which a sinner apprehends justification; i.e., the faith isn't effectual in an of itself. Justification is made effectual by God when He applies the benefits of Christ's atonement to the one who believes. How is that consistent with the WCF? Because they are in total agreement. Where do you find an inconsistency?  According to WCF, man is passive until he is quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit. Then he is enabled to embrace the grace offered. Isn't justification made effectual, not by God, but by regenerate man when he embraces the grace offered and conveyed in the effectual call? I find your phraseology quite confusing. Man doesn't make ANYTHING effectual; God does. And God is the One who also has determined and provided the means by which one is justified, i.e., the preaching/reading of the Word, repentance and faith. Again, God doesn't repent for anyone and nor is it God Who believes on Christ. Man has a specific part, albeit due to the Spirit's regeneration and enabling, in apprehending justification. Likewise, faith is the means or vehicle which apprends Christ. Faith has no inherent value in and of itself. It is Christ alone Who saves and not the actual faith that embraces Him. Yet, without faith exercised by the man, there is no salvation to be had. Romans 4:3 (KJV) "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." (cf. Gal 3:26; Jam 2:23)
Is there no cooperation by the new man with Holy Spirit to produce the fruit of regeneration? Are the gifts of repentance and faith completely independent of any ongoing work by the Holy Spirit through the means of grace? What do you mean by "cooperation"? IF by that you mean that man contributes something of his own which works with the working of the Holy Spirit, then absolutely not. Salvation is of the Lord. However, as I have maintained so many times in responses to you since you arrived here, man has a definite and necessary part in the apprehending of justification, i.e., repentance and faith, both of which are the fruit of the Spirit's regeneration. Those who have been regenerated will infallibly repent and believe. It cannot be otherwise for it is the natural result of that regeneration and the justification was eternal foreordained that the elect should obtain it. But, if the Word of God is an instrumental means which occurs before regeneration, not at the same time, as regeneration, how does regenerate man apprehend the "directions" before he is enlightened? Are not the "directions" foolishness to him? Logically, shouldn't the Word be preached after regeneration rather than before? I have repeated said that the Holy Spirit works with the instrumental means of the Word of God. I have never stated a logical or temporal order of that working. One cannot hear unless one is given ears to hear. But one is not given ears to hear, normally, apart from the preaching/reading of the Word. (Rom 1:16; 10:12-17) In His Grace,
simul iustus et peccator
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Justification and the Effectual Call
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:53 AM
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Re: Justification and the Effectual Call
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MarieP
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Anonymous
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MarieP
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:17 PM
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Re: Justification and the Effectual Call
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Pilgrim
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Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:41 PM
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Re: Justification and the Effectual Call
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:01 PM
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Re: Justification and the Effectual Call
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Pilgrim
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Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:41 PM
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Re: Justification and the Effectual Call
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Anonymous
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Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:50 PM
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Re: Justification and the Effectual Call
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Pilgrim
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William
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Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:08 AM
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Pilgrim
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William
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Pilgrim
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William
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Henry
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William
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Re: Justification and the Effectual Call
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William
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Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:59 AM
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Re: Justification and the Effectual Call
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Pilgrim
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Anonymous
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Joe k
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Joe k
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Pilgrim
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Pilgrim
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Anonymous
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Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:38 AM
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Joe k
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Thu Mar 03, 2005 1:39 PM
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Pilgrim
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Ruth
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Joe k
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Pilgrim
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Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:13 PM
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Ruth
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Joe k
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Pilgrim
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Re: Justification and the Effectual Call
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Joe k
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Pilgrim
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Joe k
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Pilgrim
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Joe k
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J_Edwards
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J_Edwards
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Joe k
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Re: Creating a clickable link
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Pilgrim
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Joe k
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Ruth
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Re: Justification and the Effectual Call
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Joe k
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Pilgrim
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Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:59 AM
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J_Edwards
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Re: Justification and the Effectual Call
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Joe k
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J_Edwards
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Joe k
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Anonymous
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Joe k
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Pilgrim
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Joe k
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Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:34 PM
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Re: Justification and the Effectual Call
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Pilgrim
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Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:45 PM
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