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Posts: 117
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C.M.H said: "It has been written in the Prophets, They "shall" all "be taught of God." So then everyone who hears and learns from the Father comes to Me;
So EVERYONE will be taught OF God but not all will learn from Him or in other words, believe in Him. I see that much as well.. Yet it still sounds like they were all given equal opportunity. They were all taught OF God and therefore were able to believe or not to believe.. Good morning C.M.H, I can see by your use of "caps" that you make a classic Arminian mistake regarding the extent of words like "everyone" and "all." Please don't think I'm trying to insult you, I just don't know a softer way to say it. This mistake leads to a contradiction. For example, Jesus says, "everyone who hears and learns from the Father comes to Me." Notice, there is nothing "tenative" about what Jesus pronounces. He doesn't say that those who hear and learn from the Father might come. No, He says that those who hear and learn from the Father come.You conclude, "So EVERYONE will be taught OF God but not all will learn from Him or in other words, believe in Him." I hope you can see the contradiction between what Jesus actually says and your concluding remark. Lastly, words such as "everyone" and "all" are always qualified or limited by the context in which they are found. You rightly pointed out that Jesus is quoting Isaiah 54:13. Isa 54:13 All your children shall be taught by the LORD, and great shall be the peace of your children.If you compare Isaiah 53:1 with Galatians 4:26,27 you will find that God is speaking the words of Isa. 53:13 to true believers represented as "Jerusalem from above." The phrase " all your children" in Isa. 53:13 refers to "heavenly" Jerusalem, not everyone in the world universally. C.M.H said:Verse 64.. But there are some of you who are not believing. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were, the ones not believing, and who was the one betraying Him. And he said, "Because of this, I have told you that no one is able to come to Me except it is given to him from My Father."
Here it seems as if Jesus said Because He knew from the beginning who was going to betray or believe, that He told them that no one was able to come to Him except that which was given by the Father.
Towards the end it seems as if there was a more equal choice for everyone who was taught OF God, and because there was a foreknowledge of who would believe or betray, that Gods choice was made.. Again, the problem with the Arminian concept of "foreknowledge," which is really "prescience," is easy to see. We've seen so far in John 6 that it is impossible for anyone to come to Christ unless they are "drawn" by God, "taught" by God and "given" the ability to come by God. So, if we assume, for a moment, the Arminian view of "foreknowledge," what exactly did God see when He looked down the corridor of time? Rom 3:11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.The Arminian view of "foreknowledge" creates a glaring and irreconcilable contradiction. Based on Scripture, the only thing God sees when He looks down the corridor of time is that no one would come to Him if left to their own devices. Have a good day.
Jim
Jud 1:3 . . . contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.
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Entire Thread
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Predestination
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lacknothing
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Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:26 PM
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Re: Predestination
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J_Edwards
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Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:17 PM
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Re: Predestination
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lacknothing
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Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:43 PM
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Re: Predestination
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J_Edwards
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Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:49 PM
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Re: Predestination
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lacknothing
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Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:41 PM
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Re: Predestination
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J_Edwards
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Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:26 PM
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Re: Predestination
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John_C
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Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:45 PM
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Re: Predestination
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lacknothing
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:38 PM
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Re: Predestination
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John_C
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:36 PM
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Re: Predestination
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lacknothing
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:43 PM
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Re: Predestination
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lacknothing
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:48 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Tom
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:50 PM
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Re: Predestination
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lacknothing
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:49 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Joe k
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:56 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Pilgrim
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:06 PM
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Re: Predestination
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lacknothing
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:51 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Pilgrim
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:03 PM
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Re: Predestination
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lacknothing
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:22 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Pilgrim
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:53 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Paul_S
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:46 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Jimbo
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:17 PM
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Re: Predestination
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lacknothing
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:59 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Jimbo
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:21 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Clint
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Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:13 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Robin
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Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:08 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Clint
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Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:34 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Machaira
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Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:08 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Clint
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Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:30 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Machaira
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Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:00 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Clint
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Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:49 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Tom
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Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:30 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Clint
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Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:20 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Machaira
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Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:53 AM
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Re: Predestination
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J_Edwards
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Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:02 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Clint
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Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:41 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Adopted
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Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:58 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Clint
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Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:02 AM
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Re: Predestination
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J_Edwards
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Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:00 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Clint
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Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:43 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Adopted
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Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:17 AM
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Re: Predestination
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J_Edwards
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Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:48 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Adopted
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Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:01 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Machaira
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Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:14 AM
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Re: Predestination
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J_Edwards
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Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:06 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Johan
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Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:49 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Tom
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Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:04 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Machaira
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Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:48 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Pilgrim
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Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:34 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Pilgrim
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:52 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Joe k
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:15 AM
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Re: Predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:18 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Wes
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:40 PM
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Re: Predestination
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jaf
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Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:55 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Robin
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:16 PM
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Re: Predestination
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lacknothing
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Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:11 PM
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Re: Predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:18 PM
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Re: Predestination
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lacknothing
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Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:53 PM
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Re: Predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:40 PM
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Re: Predestination
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lacknothing
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Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:02 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Tom
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Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:18 PM
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Re: Predestination
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J_Edwards
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Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:23 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Tom
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Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:33 AM
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Re: Predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:30 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Paul_S
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Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:47 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Pilgrim
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Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:55 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Jim_M
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Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:42 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Jim_M
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Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:52 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Robin
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Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:33 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Jim_M
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Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:55 PM
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Re: Predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:08 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Jim_M
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Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:56 AM
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Re: Predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:41 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Jim_M
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Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:47 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Adopted
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Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:04 PM
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Re: Predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:10 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Jim_M
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Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:20 PM
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Re: Predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:37 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Robin
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Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:13 AM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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lookn4ward2heavn
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Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:08 PM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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CovenantInBlood
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Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:32 PM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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lookn4ward2heavn
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Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:19 PM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:49 AM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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Paul_S
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Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:52 PM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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lookn4ward2heavn
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Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:01 PM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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Robin
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Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:44 PM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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lookn4ward2heavn
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:31 PM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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Pilgrim
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:57 PM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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lookn4ward2heavn
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:17 PM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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Peter
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Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:22 AM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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Paul_S
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Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:56 PM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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lookn4ward2heavn
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:11 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Robin
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Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:40 PM
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Ordo Salutis
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J_Edwards
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Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:57 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Theo
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Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:39 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Pilgrim
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Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:02 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Jimbo
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Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:41 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Robin
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:02 PM
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Re: Predestination
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jaf
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Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:23 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Robin
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Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:21 AM
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Re: Predestination
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jaf
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Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:47 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Jim_M
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Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:59 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Robin
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Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:39 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Jim_M
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Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:33 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Jim_M
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Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:50 AM
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Re: Predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:42 PM
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