The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum MJM, 5-Point Calvinism and the Bible

(fred) Hey Again Michael,
It has been a while hearing from you.

My primary objection to your position is twofold. First, my disagreement, as I have mentioned in previous posts, is not to the notion of "free will" per se, but the Arminian's insistence of defining "free will" from Thomist/Aristolean definitions. I believe men make choice freely, but freedom is not defined as pure libertarianism with out any outside forces working on the heart of man. The people of Israel sacrificed their children "freely" but that freedom was confined to their nature, which is fallen and in rebellion against God.

My second disagreement is the idea that some how, the wickedness displayed by men (all men, not just Jer. 7:31) is somehow outside of God's decreed purposes, as if God had no control over it, or that it suprised him. I would add a third disagreement and that is the idea of God previewing a cosmic DVD of all the events that will play out over the course of human history, and then God reacting to those various events by decreeing what will happened conditioned upon what he sees his creation do. I am not sure you appreciate the profound influence the idea of prescience has against the biblical record of God's person and nature as God. Biblical foreknowledge is not God gathering information. In all of the biblical texts that speak of God forknowing, He is foreknowing objects; his people. Hence the reason why it is understood that God's foreknowledge speaks to his intimacy with a chosen people from eternity past.

Moreover, in closing, I am still want to see some serious exegesis of the relevant biblical texts that demonstrates your conclusions. For example, in another thread on the atonement, you mention 1 John 2:2 as some proof text against actual atonement, but you do not demonstrate how the actual atonement view is disproven by the text. "World" in John's writings can mean many things, but primarily he has the idea of the world of humanity other than the nation of Israel (John 11:51, 52; Revelation 5:9,10). Douty, whose book is rather whiney against biblical calvinism, doesn't really deal with this with any substance, and neither did Picirilli when I read his treatment of 1 John 2:2. The Arminian argument against Calvinism has always been driven by emotionalism, rather than the text. Usually, the emotionalism says, "It is unfair for God to do such and such" and then supposed "proof" texts are appealed to as if they end all discussion of the matter. That is not how we do meaningful Bible study.

Fred