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Joined: Dec 2001
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Needs to get a Life
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Needs to get a Life
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615 |
CMH, your latest post is most refreshing and it is good to see the Lord at work in your life. The extra explanation helped out immensely in seeing where you are coming from. CMH stated,
Prayer: What is the purpose of prayer? If all has been planned out, and my mom were supposed to die in the hospital after an auto accident, and I were to be praying for her safety would not matter. I ask this because until I had even heard of Reformed theology, every time I passed an accident on the freeway or highway I would say a little prayer for those affected by it.. Those IN the accident would be safe and recover physically and emotionally, and that their families would be able to handle all that was happening.. Yet now I feel as if my prayers mean absolutely nothing because they will have no affect on the outcome.. Yet I remember as a kid being told that a group that comes together to pray will definitely be heard.. And I see and hear of countless books that talk about the power of prayer.. yet I still feel as if it means nothing... Prayers are powerful. Don’t ever stop praying and NEVER discount that prayer works. God ORDAINS everything – even our prayers. Let’s put this into an “accident example,” since this is the context of your post. God ordained car A and car B to be in an accident. God did this without sin. People in both cars are injured – one badly. God also ordained that as you passed by that you would pray. Now, if you did not pray, one of the people would not have made it. However, God knew the compassion of your heart toward accident victims (because He put it there), God ordained that you would pass by an accident at a particular place and time. God ordained that you would pray – and since He ordained it, it would be done. God ordained that the person would make it – and He did. See, God ordains not only the final result, but the secondary causes that lead up to the final event as well. God answered your prayer. Without prayer the person would not have made it. Prayer is precious. Prayer is ordained. Prayer has cause and effect, because God makes it so. Please note that God always answers pray, but the answer is not always yes …. God is also allowed to work outside of out prayer desires -- He knows what is best. The WCF, On Providence states, (look at part II and III especially) I. God the great Creator of all things doth uphold,[1] direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things,[2] from the greatest even to the least,[3] by his most wise and holy providence,[4] according to his infallible foreknowledge,[5] and the free and immutable counsel of his own will,[6] to the praise of the glory of his wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy.[7]
1. Neh. 9:6; Psa. 145:14-16; Heb. 1:3 2. Dan. 4:34-35; Psa. 135:6; Acts 17:25-28; Job 34:1-41:34 3. Matt. 6:26-32; 10:29-31 4. Prov. 15:3; I Chr. 16:9; Psa. 104:24; 145;17 5. Acts 15:18; Isa. 42:9; Ezek. 11:5 6. Eph. 1:11; Psa. 33:10-11 7. Isa. 63:14; Eph. 3:10; Rom. 917; Gen. 45:7; Psa. 145:7
II. Although, in relation to the foreknowledge and decree of God, the first Cause, all things come to pass immutably, and infallibly;[8] yet, by the same providence, he ordereth them to fall out, according to the nature of second causes, either necessarily, freely, or contingently.[9]
8. Acts 2:23; see Isa. 14:24, 27 9. Gen 8:22; Jer. 31:35; Isa. 10:6,7; see Exod. 21:13 and Deut. 19:5; I Kings 22:28-34
III. God, in his ordinary providence, maketh use of means,[10] yet is free to work without,[11] above,[12] and against them, at his pleasure.[13]
10. Acts 27:24, 31, 44; Isa. 55:10-11 11. Hosea 1:7; Matt. 4:4; Job 34:20 12. Rom. 4:19-21 13. II Kings 6:6; Dan. 3:27
IV. The almighty power, unsearchable wisdom, and infinite goodness of God so far manifest themselves in his providence, that it extendeth itself even to the first fall, and all other sins of angels and men;[14] and that not by a bare permission,[15] but such as hath joined with it a most wise and powerful bounding,[16] and otherwise ordering, and governing of them, in a manifold dispensation, to his own holy ends;[17] yet so, as the sinfulness thereof proceedeth only from the creature, and not from God, who, being most holy and righteous, neither is nor can be the author or approver of sin.[18]
14. Isa. 45:7; Rom. 11:32-34; II Sam. 16:10; Acts 2:23; 4:27-28; see II Sam. 24:1 and I Chr. 21:1; I Kings 22:22-23; I Chr. 10:4, 13-14 15. John 12:40; II Thess. 2:11 16. Psa. 76:10; II Kings 19:28 17. Gen. 50:20; Isa. 10:6-7,12-15 (particularly v.12) 18. James 1:13-14, 17; I John 2:16; Psa. 50:21
V. The most wise, righteous, and gracious God doth oftentimes leave, for a season, his own children to manifold temptations, and the corruption of their own hearts, to chastise them for their former sins, or to discover unto them the hidden strength of corruption and deceitfulness of their hearts, that they may be humbled;[19] and, to raise them to a more close and constant dependence for their support upon himself, and to make them more watchful against all future occasions of sin, and for sundry other just and holy ends.[20]
19. II Chr. 32:25-26, 31; Deut. 8:2-3, 5; Luke 22:31-32; see II Sam. 24:1, 25 20. II Cor. 12:7-9; see Psa. 73:1-28; 77:1-12; Mark 14: 66-72; John 21:15-19
VI. As for those wicked and ungodly men whom God, as a righteous Judge, for former sins, doth blind and harden,[21] from them he not only withholdeth his grace whereby they might have been enlightened in their understandings, and wrought upon in their hearts;[22] but sometimes also withdraweth the gifts which they had,[23] and exposeth them to such objects as their corruption makes occasions of sin;[24] and, withal, gives them over to their own lusts, the temptations of the world, and the power of Satan,[25] whereby it comes to pass that they harden themselves, even under those means which God useth for the softening of others.[26]
21. Rom. 1:24, 26, 28; 11:7-8 22. Deut. 29:4; Mark 4:11-12 23. Matt. 13:12; 25:29; see Acts 13:10-11 24. Gen. 4:4; II Kings 8:12-13; see Matt. 26:14-16 25. Psa. 109:6; Luke 22:3; II Thess. 2:10-12 26. Exod. 7:3, 8:15, 32; II Cor. 2:15-16; Isa. 6:9-10, 8:14; I Pet 2:7-8; Acts 28:26-27
VII. As the providence of God doth, in general, reach to all creatures; so, after a most special manner, it taketh care of his church, and disposeth all things to the good thereof.[27]
27. I Tim. 4:10; Amos 9:8-9; Matt. 16:18; Rom. 4:28; Isa. 43:3-5, 14
Reformed and Always Reforming,
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Entire Thread
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Predestination
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lacknothing
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Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:26 PM
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Re: Predestination
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J_Edwards
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Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:17 PM
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Re: Predestination
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lacknothing
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Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:43 PM
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Re: Predestination
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J_Edwards
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Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:49 PM
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Re: Predestination
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lacknothing
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Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:41 PM
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Re: Predestination
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J_Edwards
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Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:26 PM
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Re: Predestination
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John_C
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Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:45 PM
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Re: Predestination
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lacknothing
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:38 PM
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Re: Predestination
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John_C
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:36 PM
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Re: Predestination
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lacknothing
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:43 PM
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Re: Predestination
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lacknothing
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:48 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Tom
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:50 PM
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Re: Predestination
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lacknothing
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:49 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Joe k
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:56 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Pilgrim
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:06 PM
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Re: Predestination
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lacknothing
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:51 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Pilgrim
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:03 PM
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Re: Predestination
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lacknothing
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:22 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Pilgrim
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:53 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Paul_S
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:46 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Jimbo
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:17 PM
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Re: Predestination
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lacknothing
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:59 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Jimbo
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:21 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Clint
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Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:13 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Robin
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Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:08 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Clint
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Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:34 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Machaira
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Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:08 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Clint
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Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:30 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Machaira
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Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:00 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Clint
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Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:49 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Tom
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Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:30 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Clint
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Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:20 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Machaira
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Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:53 AM
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Re: Predestination
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J_Edwards
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Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:02 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Clint
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Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:41 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Adopted
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Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:58 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Clint
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Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:02 AM
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Re: Predestination
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J_Edwards
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Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:00 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Clint
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Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:43 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Adopted
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Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:17 AM
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Re: Predestination
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J_Edwards
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Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:48 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Adopted
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Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:01 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Machaira
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Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:14 AM
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Re: Predestination
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J_Edwards
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Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:06 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Johan
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Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:49 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Tom
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Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:04 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Machaira
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Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:48 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Pilgrim
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Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:34 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Pilgrim
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:52 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Joe k
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:15 AM
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Re: Predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:18 AM
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Wes
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:40 PM
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jaf
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Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:55 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Robin
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:16 PM
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Re: Predestination
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lacknothing
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Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:11 PM
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Re: Predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:18 PM
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Re: Predestination
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lacknothing
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Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:53 PM
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Re: Predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:40 PM
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Re: Predestination
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lacknothing
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Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:02 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Tom
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Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:18 PM
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Re: Predestination
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J_Edwards
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Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:23 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Tom
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Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:33 AM
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Re: Predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:30 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Paul_S
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Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:47 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Pilgrim
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Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:55 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Jim_M
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Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:42 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Jim_M
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Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:52 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Robin
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Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:33 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Jim_M
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Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:55 PM
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Re: Predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:08 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Jim_M
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Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:56 AM
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Re: Predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:41 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Jim_M
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Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:47 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Adopted
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Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:04 PM
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Re: Predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:10 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Jim_M
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Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:20 PM
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Re: Predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:37 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Robin
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Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:13 AM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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lookn4ward2heavn
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Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:08 PM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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CovenantInBlood
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Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:32 PM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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lookn4ward2heavn
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Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:19 PM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 2:49 AM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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Paul_S
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Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:52 PM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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lookn4ward2heavn
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Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:01 PM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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Robin
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Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:44 PM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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lookn4ward2heavn
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:31 PM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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Pilgrim
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:57 PM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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lookn4ward2heavn
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:17 PM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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Peter
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Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:22 AM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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Paul_S
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Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:56 PM
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Re: Predestination - Total Depravity Central?
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lookn4ward2heavn
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Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:11 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Robin
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Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:40 PM
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Ordo Salutis
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J_Edwards
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Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:57 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Theo
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Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:39 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Pilgrim
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Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:02 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Jimbo
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Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:41 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Robin
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Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:02 PM
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Re: Predestination
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jaf
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Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:23 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Robin
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Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:21 AM
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Re: Predestination
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jaf
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Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:47 PM
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Re: Predestination
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Jim_M
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Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:59 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Robin
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Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:39 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Jim_M
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Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:33 AM
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Re: Predestination
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Jim_M
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Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:50 AM
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Re: Predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Sat Nov 03, 2007 8:42 PM
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