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#6853
Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:47 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615
Needs to get a Life
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Needs to get a Life
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,615 |
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]It was not only necessary for Christ to die for the sins of the redeemed but for the sins of the whole world. This does not mean that God set out to do something He was not able to complete as I am finding in the articles on this web site say. </font><hr></blockquote><p> [color:red]In Arminianism, Christ’s death was designed to make salvation a potentially for all people, but it did not actually secure or guarantee the salvation of anyone. Fallen man determines by an act of his fallen will whether or not Christ’s work will be effective by his defective faith.</font color=red><br><br>[color:blue]In Calvinism, Christ’s death was designed to actually secure the salvation of all God’s chosen people. God has determined that all for whom Christ scarified himself will be saved.</font color=blue><br><br>In Scripture we see that Christ’s death [color:blue]ACTUALLY</font color=blue> accomplished salvation and not merely made it a [color:red]potential</font color=red>: Rom 5:8-10; 2 Cor 5:18-19; Eph 2:15-16; Col 1:21-22, and [color:blue]actually redeemed us</font color=blue>: Gal; 3:13; Tit 2:14; Heb 9:12, and [color:blue]actually saved us</font color=blue>: Luke 19:10; 1 Tim 1:15.<br><br>Jesus Christ was sent into the world to save the people God [color:blue]had given Him</font color=blue>: John 6:35-40; John 10:11, 14-18, 24-29; Eph 1:3-13.<br><br>Christ’s sacrificial and intercessory work as High Priest is for those the Father [color:blue]had given Him</font color=blue>, [color:red]not the world</font color=red>: John 17:1-11, 20, 24-26; Heb 2:17, 3:1, 9:28.<br><br>Christ’s saving work was intended to save a particular people: [color:blue]His people</font color=blue>—Matt 1:21; [color:blue]His sheep</font color=blue>, John 10:11, 15, 26; [color:blue]The Church</font color=blue>, Acts 20:28; Eph 5:25-27; [color:blue]God’s Elect</font color=blue>, Rom 8:32-34; [color:blue]His Friends</font color=blue>, John 15:13; [color:blue]For Many</font color=blue>, Matt 20:28; 26:28; Heb 9:28.<br><br>Those for whom Christ died are an innumerable host from every tribe, tongue, people, and nation in the world:—THE WORLD; Rev 5:29; John 3:16-17, 4:42; 2 Cor 5:19; 1 John 2:1-2, 4:14, and –ALL; Rom 5:18, 2 Cor 5:14-15; 1 Tim 2:4-6; Heb 2:9; 2 Pet 3:9.<br><br><ul>NOTE: The Bible often uses the words WORLD and ALL in a restricted, limited sense: Luke 2:1-2; 1 Cor 6:12, 10:23; John 12:32; 1 Cor 15:22.[/LIST] As John Owen’s argument goes: What the advocates of "unlimited atonement" grievously err on is in their understanding of the nature of the atonement. These questions must be answered: <br><br><ul>1. Did the Lord Christ actually make atonement for sin? <br>2. Did the atonement actually make satisfaction for ALL sins? <br>3. For whom did Christ actually offer Himself as an atonement for sin?[/LIST] God imposed his wrath due unto, and Christ underwent the pains of hell for, <br><br><ul>1. either all the sins of all men,<br>2. or all the sins of some men,<br>3. or some sins of all men.[/LIST]If the last, some sins of all men, then have all men some sins to answer for, and so shall no man be saved; for if God entered into judgment with us, though it were with all mankind for one sin, no flesh should be justified in his sight: “If the LORD should mark iniquities, who should stand?” Ps. cxxx. 2. We might all go to cast all that we have “to the moles and to the bats, to go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the Lord, and for the glory of his majesty,” Isa. ii. 20, 21.<br><br>If the Second, that is it which we affirm, that Christ in their stead and room Suffered for all the sins of all the elect in the world.<br><br>If the first, why then, are not all freed from the punishment of all their sins?<br><br>You will say, “Because of their unbelief; they will not believe.”<br><br>But this unbelief, is it a sin, or not?<br><br>If not, why should they be punished for it? If it be, then Christ underwent the punishment due to it, or not.<br><br>If so, then why must that hinder them more than their other sins for which he died from partaking of the fruit of his death?<br><br>If he did not, then did he not die for all their sins. Let them choose which part they will.
Reformed and Always Reforming,
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Entire Thread
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Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:55 AM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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John_C
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 12:09 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 12:38 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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J_Edwards
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:21 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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DaveVan3
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:39 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 11:05 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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DaveVan3
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Sun Oct 26, 2003 2:18 AM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 26, 2003 4:19 AM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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J_Edwards
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Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:09 AM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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DaveVan3
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Sun Oct 26, 2003 10:23 AM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 26, 2003 6:57 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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J_Edwards
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Sun Oct 26, 2003 7:47 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Sun Oct 26, 2003 11:40 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:57 AM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:11 AM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 7:03 AM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 3:36 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 7:11 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:49 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Wes
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:14 AM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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J_Edwards
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:15 AM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 4:09 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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J_Edwards
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 5:38 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:21 AM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 28, 2003 5:11 AM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Tom
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Tue Oct 28, 2003 6:47 AM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:35 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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J_Edwards
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Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:43 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 28, 2003 10:09 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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J_Edwards
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Tue Oct 28, 2003 10:15 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 28, 2003 5:57 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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J_Edwards
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Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:16 AM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:52 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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J_Edwards
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Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:39 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:02 AM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Henry
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Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:22 AM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Wed Oct 29, 2003 4:50 AM
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The Wills of God
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J_Edwards
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Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:28 AM
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The Wills of God
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J_Edwards
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Wed Oct 29, 2003 9:00 AM
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Re: The Wills of God
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Anonymous
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Wed Oct 29, 2003 6:01 PM
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Re: The Wills of God
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Anonymous
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Wed Oct 29, 2003 7:55 PM
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Re: The Wills of God
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Anonymous
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Thu Oct 30, 2003 7:52 AM
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Re: The Wills of God
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Robin
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Thu Oct 30, 2003 10:17 AM
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Re: The Wills of God
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Anonymous
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Thu Oct 30, 2003 4:54 PM
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Re: The Wills of God
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Robin
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Fri Oct 31, 2003 10:08 AM
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Re: The Wills of God
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Paul_S
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Thu Oct 30, 2003 12:13 PM
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Re: The Wills of God
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Anonymous
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Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:28 PM
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Re: The Wills of God
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Anonymous
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Fri Oct 31, 2003 5:58 AM
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Re: The Wills of God
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Anonymous
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Fri Oct 31, 2003 12:04 PM
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Re: The Wills of God
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Anonymous
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Fri Oct 31, 2003 6:18 PM
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Re: The Wills of God
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Anonymous
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Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:08 PM
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Re: The Wills of God
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J_Edwards
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Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:21 PM
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Re: The Wills of God
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Anonymous
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Sat Nov 01, 2003 6:17 AM
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Re: The Wills of God
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Anonymous
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Sat Nov 01, 2003 12:02 PM
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Re: The Wills of God
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J_Edwards
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Sat Nov 01, 2003 12:09 PM
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Re: The Wills of God
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Anonymous
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Sat Nov 01, 2003 5:42 PM
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Re: The Wills of God
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J_Edwards
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Sat Nov 01, 2003 6:45 PM
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Re: The Wills of God
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J_Edwards
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Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:19 PM
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Re: The Wills of God
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Tom
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Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:40 AM
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re
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Henry
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Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:41 PM
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Re: re
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 28, 2003 5:31 PM
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Re: re
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Henry
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Tue Oct 28, 2003 6:47 PM
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Re: re
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Tom
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Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:15 PM
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Re: re
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Anonymous
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Wed Oct 29, 2003 6:27 AM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:12 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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DaveVan3
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Sun Oct 26, 2003 8:00 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:49 AM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Jason1646
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:54 AM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 3:02 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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fredman
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 3:37 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 5:57 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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fredman
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:04 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 8:34 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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fredman
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Tue Oct 28, 2003 10:26 AM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:46 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:53 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:47 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Wes
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:22 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Henry
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Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:38 AM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 28, 2003 1:56 AM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 28, 2003 6:06 AM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:29 PM
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Re: Falling away from what?
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Anonymous
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Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:28 PM
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