still have about a page of notes on the Joe’s post from Friday which will probably expand as I work on it. That’s one short coming of a message board, that it is difficult to stay focused on any one issue very long. But there are plus sides too, one being in real life it would be impossible to have a discussion quite like this at all (unless this IS real life, then it would be possible).<br><br>The point Joe and Chris make are of course valid and it admittedly weakens the strength of their confession. It is only as I said; they did not run to meet God and cast themselves prostrate before Him. Never the less, they did openly and freely admit disobeying the command. The attempted blame shifting was only to try to minimize their personal responsibility but in the end the confession came, “I did eat.” To me, that is the bottom line.<br><br>Joe rightly says, “But God still held each of them responsible”, but what follows is not right.<br>He says “sins- plural”. I say “no, sin- singular”. There was only one command they were responsible for, “Do not eat”. There was no command not to hide (there still isn’t, that I know of) and there was no command not to lie (I don’t see where they lied either, (I’m not ready to say at this point who is not understanding the theology of the ‘will’, (though I do have an opinion about that))).<br><br>So my point in this discussion is just made by Joe. God held them responsible for their sin. It follows then, that if God has made them responsible for their sin, He is not responsible, more specifically can not be responsible. This brings me to the next point in my notes from yesterdays post.<br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"] <br><blockquote> So the question I am asking here is if God was not able or willing to so act on Adam to keep him from rebelling, how is He going to keep the elect from continuing in that rebellion?</font><hr></blockquote><p> It is very unusual that you would think that God is UNABLE to act to keep Adam from rebelling—this reveals that you do not really believe in the sovereignty of God.</blockquote><br>My note says, “It is very unusual that you would think it unusual that I would think God is UNABLE to act to keep Adam from rebelling against the known will of God.”<br><br>While I do believe in the sovereignty of God, though I admit perhaps imperfectly, it is apparent that we do not share a common belief or understanding of the sovereignty of man. There is an argument used by atheists (or agnostics) that if God can do anything, why can’t He make a rock that is so big that He can’t move it? My answer to that is that He did. He created man and gave him a free will and is bound by His own word to not violate it, or interfere with it.<br><br>If it was God’s intention to create man and have him act freely within the will of God, it must be possible for him to act outside of it with out any restraint. It just has to be that way, or man is not acting freely.<br><br>It should be perfectly clear that God intends man to be sovereign and self governing over certain aspects of his life. I believe God’s first choice and highest form of government is individual people controlling their behavior under the laws of God, a theocracy. This is how Israel got its beginning as a nation in the book of Judges. It is also, in some respects, the basis of American government.<br><br>The only way that man can be truly be free in the sense that Jesus meant when He said, “you shall know the truth and the truth shall make your free” is man living in perfect obedience to the laws of God, having the option to rebel if he chooses.<br><br>Your answer to the question how is God going to keep us from ever sinning is inadequate unless you explain what glorification means.<br><br>My belief is God is never going to take away our freedom. A lot of things will change when comes to receive His Bride, but not that. I have to say, and I know this is harsh, but your statement that you would rather be a prisoner of Christ than a slave of Satan is pathetic. The God of the universe will not have a prisoner for a bride. We will not be locked up in a garden with no way out. He could have done that and saved a trip to Calvary. He is not taking prisoners. He is winning hearts. <br><br><br><br>Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.<br>
