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Re: Double predestination
[Re: J_Edwards]
#29632
Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:57 AM
Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:57 AM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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J_Edwards said:Speratus syas
Romans 9:21 says God has the authority from one lump to make one vessel unto honor and another unto dishonor. Isolated from other verses, there is nothing here that says that God makes a vessel of honor or a vessel of dishonor. These verses are not isolated. What of Esau (Rom 9:11, 13)? Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God! Proverbs 16:4 states,“The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil” and Peter concurs, saying "A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence; for they stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed" (1 Peter 2:8) and again, "But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption" (2 Peter 2:12). Jude sums up this decree of reprobation saying, "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ" (Jude 4). All these men were made from the same lump, and thus, if as you say the reprobabte had a "will" in what happened to themsleves, then so would the elect, but this does away with (1) election, (2) the sovereignty of God, (3) salvation by grace alone,... i.e. the whole Gospel. 1. Romans 9:10-13 refers to events post-fall. The righteousness of Christ is not imputed in the womb to sinful Esau but it is to Jacob by faith in the coming Savior. 2, Prov. 16:4 says God made all things according to His plan. It does not say God caused the wickedness of any thing. God pronounces His creation "very good" in Gen. 1:31. The wicked remain under His government for the day of evil. 3. In 1 Peter 2:8, we see God foreordained their disobedience but the verse does not say God caused their sin of stumbling at the word. 4. 2 Peter 2:12 does not say that God caused the corruption of the false teachers wherein they were beasts to be taken and destroyed. 5. No one has argued against the foreordination of events described in Jude 4. 6. Fallen men from the same lump have no free will to do good or to do evil. Thus, (1) election, (2) the sovereignty of God, (3) salvation by grace alone are preserved.
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Double predestination
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knoxandcalvin
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Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:07 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:40 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:43 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:59 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:21 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:01 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:46 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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gotribe
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Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:30 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:28 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:46 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:57 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:08 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:14 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:04 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:17 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:41 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:20 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:13 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:41 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:27 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Tom
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Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:50 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:38 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:48 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:36 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 3:39 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:36 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:07 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Tom
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:53 PM
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Tom
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:37 AM
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:24 AM
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Tom
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:31 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:42 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:02 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:14 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:45 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:57 AM
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:56 PM
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CovenantInBlood
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:32 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:41 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:53 PM
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:03 PM
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Pilgrim
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:00 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:18 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:50 AM
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:16 PM
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CovenantInBlood
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:04 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:06 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:13 PM
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Re: Posting long articles here
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Pilgrim
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:21 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:43 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:11 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:48 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:23 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:21 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:30 AM
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Double predestination and Romans 11
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J_Edwards
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Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:52 PM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:54 AM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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J_Edwards
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:59 AM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:42 AM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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J_Edwards
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:42 PM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:19 PM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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J_Edwards
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Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:39 AM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Anonymous
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Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:20 AM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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J_Edwards
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Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:24 PM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Joe k
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Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:42 PM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:35 AM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Tom
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Sat Dec 17, 2005 5:46 AM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:45 AM
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Re: Double predestination and Romans 11
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Tom
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Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:43 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:17 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:37 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:56 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:52 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Wes
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:37 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:29 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:50 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:18 AM
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Joe k
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Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:42 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:22 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:21 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:37 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:32 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:45 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:58 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:28 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:22 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:38 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Tom
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:10 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:35 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:34 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:35 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:13 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:54 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:28 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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li0scc0
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:01 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:22 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:03 AM
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Anonymous
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Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:58 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:33 AM
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Anonymous
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Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:14 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:53 AM
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Anonymous
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Mon Dec 19, 2005 4:36 AM
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Peter
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Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:21 PM
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Anonymous
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Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:08 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:24 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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William
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:05 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:07 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:16 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Anonymous
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:04 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:47 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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CovenantInBlood
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 4:28 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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William
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Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:29 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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William
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Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:14 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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William
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Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:23 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:57 AM
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beloved57
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Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:25 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:50 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:18 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Wes
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:04 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:12 AM
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Wes
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:26 PM
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beloved57
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:18 PM
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J_Edwards
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:10 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:28 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:24 PM
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beloved57
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:10 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Adopted
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:50 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:58 PM
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Privation of the Good
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J_Edwards
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:58 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Robin
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Fri Jun 16, 2006 11:31 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Tom
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Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:44 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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li0scc0
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Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:24 PM
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gnarley
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Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:10 AM
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beloved57
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:35 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:04 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:20 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:10 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:31 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:58 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:23 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 9:09 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:59 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:06 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:24 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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doulos
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:42 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:07 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:31 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:36 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Peter
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:51 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Wes
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:11 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:52 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:42 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:01 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:51 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:34 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:41 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:51 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:56 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:02 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:51 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Joe k
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Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:57 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:07 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:58 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:19 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jun 18, 2006 2:57 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Adopted
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Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:01 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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doulos
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:40 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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Adopted
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Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:38 PM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:10 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Adopted
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:59 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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beloved57
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:17 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Pilgrim
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:50 AM
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Re: Double predestination
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Adopted
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Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:36 AM
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