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speratus said:

At the time of Esau's conception, God hated Esau. Although he had not as yet committed any personal sins, the inherited wickedness of Adam was imputed to him. Where's the reprobation?

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speratus said;
Here is your answer, a verse that is overlooked:

22
What if God, wishing to show his wrath and make known his power, has endured with much patience the vessels of wrath made for destruction?

MADE FOR DESTRUCTION. They were MADE for this purpose

Every translation I've seen uses "fitted" or "prepared". What translation are you using?

Pilgrim: Patience brother patience. Speretus is asking questions that have plagued this teaching forever. Since the translation makes no difference, I will not address that part of your response.

AS far as your understanding of Esau, I am attempting to understand. Are you saying For the 9 months in the womb is what equals "before being born?" You are seperating the beginning from the end sperry, God being eternal, starts with the end in mind, then fashions His pots according to His own purpose. You are also confusing acts of sin with reprobation. This cannot be done. May I ask what you understand reprobation to mean? The Holy Spirit inspired Paul to write both phrases: Loved Jacob, HAted Esau. Now, if election to salvation was only in mind, he could have left out the hating of Esau. Then I will agree there could be room for a non active reprobating on Gods part. OF just creating out of the same lump those for salvation, and just "passing by" or "leaving the rest in their sins. BUt unless we take Jehus knife to the writ, it has to stay there. Each sperm egg creating is fitted for a purpose. I know of no potter that just makes a vessel, then decides what do do with it after he is done. No, they always have the end in mind. The clay is not put on the wheel, and with eyes closed, the potter just starts to mold it, then hours later looks and says "Hey I made an ashtray". No, While haveing the unformed lump, He knows what he is going to create before the first touch of his hand. All hinges on the fact that God purposed them not to be redeemed by Christ. They are not given to Christ. They are not enlightened savingly by the Spirit. They are not created "inferior" by nature, it is the same lump. Not one lump for elect, and another for reprobate. Paul states all man from the same blood I think somewhere in Acts. They are not created "more evil" or infused with some "frsh evil" (whatever that means) They are not created with some unreedemable sin nature. They are all equal as far as nature. But one is fitted for sal;vation, the other is fitted for destruction