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Joe k said:
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speratus said:

I agree that Paul's argument is not merely hypothetical; however, Paul does not say God made any vessels of dishonor. Adam, at the instigation of the devil, made himself and all his seed vessels of dishonor. In the preceding verses, Paul says nothing about God creating fresh evil in Ishmael, Esau, or Pharaoh. In the following verses, Paul speaks about God making vessels of honor not vessels of dishonor.


Speratus, are we reading the same verse? It is the whole of Romans 9. Not one verse in isolation. You are confused about what reprobation actually means, and it is common. One thing it does not mean is that God makes people EVIL or Sinners. Just look at those elected, Moses was a muderer, Noah was a drunk, Abraham a polygamist, David an adulterer and murderer, etc etc etc. The irony is compare these people to those in MAtt 7 whom the Lord condemns as He never KNEW them. These people appeared "good". You must stop thinking that those who espouse an active, postitive action by God to reprobate, does not at all mean he created them with some extreme evil. But He does create them with their damnation in view. Hence their continued unbelief, continued disobedience, continued sin that is not redeemed by the blood of Christ. Plus I keep harping on this point, Reprobation is His Sovereignty, Condemnation is His justice. Just like Election is His Sovereignty and Salvation in His Mercy.


The whole of Romans 9 teaches justification by faith alone. Parts of Romans 9 teach election. Nothing in Romans 9 teaches reprobation being defined as God making a person a vessel of dishonor.

I agree that God created Adam knowing He would damn him and his seed. However, His purpose was the salvation of the elect.