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J_Edwards said:
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speratus said:
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J_Edwards said:
But, as now you concur God foreordained these means "Before the worlds." What do you call this foreordaining? Could we call this reprobation? If not, what do you call it and give references to the term?


The Word and Sacraments are means of grace not means of damnation. God does not foreordain them for the purpose of creating evil in men in order to damn them. Evil men in their faithless use of the Word and Sacraments load themselves with righteous judgment.

So are you saying God never uses ANY means to accomplish His plan in the non-elect? (Exod 9:15-16; Josh 11:18-20; Prov 16:4; Isaiah 6:10; John 12:37-40; Rom 9:17). If God uses means when were these means foreordained?


Your citations have the common thread of a pronouncement of judicial hardening. If people maliciously reject God's offers of salvation, He surrenders them to their evil will. He punishes them with temporal and eternal judgments. Is this rebuking of sin foreordained? Yes. Is it done for the purpose of causing the sinner to sin even more? No.

In scripture, there are two great principles of preaching, law and gospel. Every preaching that rebukes sin is law. Every preaching of the grace of God in Christ is gospel. The law is preached to impenitant sinners; the gospel is preached to sinners who are troubled because of their sins.

The preaching of the means of grace (i.e., Word and Sacraments) is a preaching of the gospel not of the law.

Last edited by speratus; Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:52 AM.